Westminstenders: Silly Season

[RedToothBrush]

It's that time of year again when politicians seem to completely lose their marbles in order to impress the faithful. And it is beginning to feel like conference season is increasingly an exercise in religious ferver to the party rather than considering what's in the best interests of the whole country.

Labour have got off to a good start before their conference opens, by almost starting complete melt down.

The Tories have promised to break from convention and try and over shadow the others, so that's something to look forward to.

And early this week we have the supreme Court ruling which could, regardless of which direction it swings, have massive ramifications for our democracy.

Big week ahead.

True peregrina

My understanding of the Direct Grant Grammar schools was that they were Independent before the war, but as a result of the 1944 Education Act went into the State System. Where they were always considered a cut above the ordinary LA grammar schools. Once Comprehensives came in, they went back to being Independent. When the Assisted Places scheme was introduced some people regarded that as a way for middle class people who were down on their uppers to get an Independent education.

I certainly don't think that Abingdon School, which is one such ex-Direct Grant - is down to earth and putting effort into not being socially exclusive.

@Emilyontmoor
I completely agree with you.
Bury my kids are in private education - at schools no-one has ever heard at - the reason is my eldest sons learning difficulties, he's bright and in no way would have his needs meet at any of the local schools.
The most elite schools around here are the grammar schools- where wealthy parents title there kids to unbelievable extent, so they can pretend that they aren't elitist..... that pisses me off, as they could afford private - but take a place from a kid whose parents can't.

From a non- Brit, what this country does need to get over is showing difference to people because of their education..... I don't care at all about someone's background, level of education etc - I do care about how they behave to fellow community members and and those less fortunate than themselves.

On another front having had two friends kids go to Eton, many of the current crop in parliament wouldn't get in...... it is far less about who you are now (unless maybe a future king- presuming that the result of this shit is that we keep a Monarchy) - infact who you are seems to have very little bearing - and academic selection really important.

The actual commitment on private/public schools isn't wildly extreme. It's a series of aims, starting with the issue of charitable status, and talking about 'incorporating into the state sector'.

That second can mean things like inspection, regulation & exams. Which is what they have in France, for example.

Peregrina I have a friend who went there and I also went to a direct grant. They gave the boarding schools and Catholic Schools a run for their money in terms of damaging young women. Spinster teachers with issues left to take revenge on teenage girls.... On a social media site one former pupil of my school wrote of our Head “How many lives did that woman wreck?” I gather the Head at Abingdon was similarly spiteful and vindictive. But my school was very socially mixed and did it’s best to maintain that afterwards, in fact faced with merging with another more exclusive private school, the trustees, mainly former pupils of my generation, opted to return it to the state instead.

The press always go bananas about click bait ideas in the manifesto but ... LAbour are going to have five years, part of which will be taken up with (bloody) Brexit. Realistically, we'll see the end of charitable status and (perhaps) the start of regulatory alignment.

On another front having had two friends kids go to Eton, many of the current crop in parliament wouldn't get in......

I remember when the League tables first came out - one of the Local Independent schools, with a reputation of not being the most academic, most definitely showed that in their results. They then upped their game.

Another change which I think we will see working through in the next ten to twenty years, is that increasingly parents prefer to have children as weekly boarders only. Also I think only Eton, Harrow, Radley and one other, but I forget which, are the only single sex boys public schools now. Although quite a few only take girls in the sixth form.

The actual commitment on private/public schools isn't wildly extreme.

Restricting university entry for their pupils - regardless of academic ability - by means a forced quota system isn't extreme? And expropriating and nationalizing the assets of private schools isn't extreme? What kind of far left planet are you on?

I don't understand how the quota system could possibly work in practice. First applications maybe, but almost all universities have places in clearing - would that be included in the quota?

If so, universities would be choosing between giving places to people who couldn't meet the course requirements and are more likely to drop out or having spaces especially on less popular courses.

It would probably result in the closure of a few universities, combined with post grad qualifications becoming more important and privilege being reaffirmed in that way.

As to the damage inflicted by boarding schools I have absolutely no doubt that there is an even bigger scandal still to emerge about the levels of abuse and violence that went on. I was at a funeral service recently where many of those attending had gone to Benedictine Monastery Schools. They had not even served the wine before the stories of sexual abuse and violence started to come out. When parents dared to complain after a pupil was hospitalised the monk was simply shipped off to Africa or Peru. Toe curling and the resultant suicides are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the psychological damage done. In Spotlight they highlighted that the Boston Globe found that 6% of all priests were Involved in some sort of sexual abuse. From what I heard I can well believe that is true of the monks in those schools, and we are a long way from any sort of accountability or even understanding what went on and the long term impacts on the survivors.

Hoooo I know my DD doesn’t go to Eton, I never said she did. The Labour decision is about private schools in general, it doesn’t even say ‘public’ schools.

I can accept giving up the charitable status, and I would vote for Labour knowing that it would cost us, but I think they’ve gone too far.

I used to live with someone who’d gone to boarding school (Forces parent). She was very odd, to say the least!

Could we not distract ourselves with issues about schools on a Brexit thread? ( I know I am as guilty!)

Unless of course, we Brexit with No Deal, the economy tanks, and a lot of middle ranked Independent Schools go to the wall, and Eton and Harrow fill up with wealthy Chinese and Russians - happening already at some middle ranked schools.

I can accept giving up the charitable status, and I would vote for Labour knowing that it would cost us, but I think they’ve gone too far.

Exactly - they’ve just really pissed off even more people with something else that won’t even work anyway.

They are just trying to avoid being elected.

Again I can see the point for children with parents in the Forces - I know one such family - it gives some stability and continuity. But their boy didn't go until he was 13. He wasn't shipped off at 8.

It is Brexit related though really because it’s about the fact our opposition is worse than useless and is doing all it can to avoid Brexit and discussing it.

Certainly this thread is very well named - 'Silly Season'. All they had to do was sit quiet and behave normally after the Tories ousted 21 of their seniors. Why suddenly try to follow suit and then have this headlining stuff?

Maybe we need a separate thread to discuss Labour policy on schools? I've loads of questions.

Isn't offering an excellent higher and further education sector a big part of our economy and expertise and reputation internationally?

Could private schools still exist for overseas students only but all UK passport holders would be banned from attending?

How can you abolish paying for secondary education but still have to pay for uni?

Think it may be a vote winner though.

And our govt - remember it is the Tory party who 100% caused this Brexshit disaster - is pretending to negotiate while running down time to No Deal
and wreaking havoc with the constitution

Remember:
everything this govt does, such as prorogation again and / or ignoring the law, you can expect a future hard left or Faragist govt to use as precedent

I expect after No Deal we get either a hung Parliament or a small Tory majority, followed by an early GE during a deep economic recession and either a hard left or Faragist govt
Possibly both in quick succession

Most universities are already giving contextual offers depending on the performance of the school attended (and that would not apply to a well performing state school). The issue is far more complex and entrenched than whether a pupil is from a state or private school. It is about middle class social capital, and private schools do not have a monopoly on that. I am involved with a mentoring charity that does very well at getting able pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds into good universities. Things like highlighting that there are more career opportunities in science and medicine than training to be a doctor, that less known / valued subjects like area studies / languages bring opportunities and direct contact with people who have succeeded in finding their way through the system and can pass on the social capital they have built up as a result. Some schools are really bad at this sort of stuff, we have had pupils told they shouldn’t apply to Oxbridge because they wouldn’t fit in who then got places and thrived there.

And our govt - remember it is the Tory party who 100% caused this Brexshit disaster - is pretending to negotiate while running down time to No Deal and wreaking havoc with the constitution

Indeed - and our opposition are just letting them

What’s that thing about 2 wrongs not making a right?

Reminder of No 10 spokesman showing contempt for the judges & the law
Thinly veiled pressure / threats here:

So how would a successful quota scheme judge whether a pupil had that social capital or not? Do you say loo or toilet? (I once heard that one of my managers had described me as the sort of person who says toilet)

Agree, BigChoc.

My personal prophecy is No Deal, followed by a Far Right government.

It's by far the most likely outcome at this stage.

I concentrate on blaming the govt who created this mess, not the Opposition who didn't do enough to stop them

You concentrate on attacking Labour and Corbyn all the time, whom I gather you've no intention of voting for anyway
rather than the Tory party whom you have voted for in the past

Yes, let's concentrate on Brexit rather than private schools, inherited wealth or other privileges which the sharp-elbowed are so determined to retain