Westminstenders: Silly Season

[RedToothBrush]

It's that time of year again when politicians seem to completely lose their marbles in order to impress the faithful. And it is beginning to feel like conference season is increasingly an exercise in religious ferver to the party rather than considering what's in the best interests of the whole country.

Labour have got off to a good start before their conference opens, by almost starting complete melt down.

The Tories have promised to break from convention and try and over shadow the others, so that's something to look forward to.

And early this week we have the supreme Court ruling which could, regardless of which direction it swings, have massive ramifications for our democracy.

Big week ahead.

I concentrate on blaming the govt who created this mess, not the Opposition who didn't do enough to stop them

Heaven forfend that people point out that the purported saviours in the Labour Party are planning to start seizing private property. I can't imagine why you'd want us to keep quiet about that...

You concentrate on attacking Labour and Corbyn all the time, whom I gather you've no intention of voting for anyway rather than the Tory party whom you have voted for in the past

Yep - because I can’t change the past but I could do something in the future if there was a decent option to get us out of this mess - but there’s not.

Peregrina I do think this is an issue that is another illustration of what has happened around Brexit. It is straight out of the populist playbook, instead of addressing the complex issues with a sensible targeted plan, you blame the private schools just as the Brexiteers blame the EU Remainiacs and all the other incendiary rhetoric coming out of No 10. They are playing the same game.

Hello, been out all day.

Did anything come of that Emma Kennedy twitter thing?

@BigChocFrenzy
"private schools, inherited wealth or other privileges which the sharp-elbowed are so determined to retai"
Just a braid appalling generalisation- everything my husband and I have - we have warmth ourselves. Yes we privately educate- because education provides opportunities. My son would be relegated to the scrap heap of life in the state system - which is hugely tragic. I would applaud a labour policy that offered the very best education to everyone - properly resourced SEN provision. This is yet again a divisive policy - that does nothing to bring the country back together, and most on this thread have jumped on the band wagon .......

"Heaven forfend that people point out that the purported saviours in the Labour Party are planning to start seizing private property."

After a couple of years of No Deal Brexit, they'll probably be free to do what they want

All made possible by the Tory nihilists who have taken over the party from the Conservatives
The pendulum will swing back just as far the other way

atm, I just don't give a shit if those who elected this bunch of hard right nihilists lose some of their cherished possessions

atm, I just don't give a shit if those who elected this bunch of hard right nihilists lose some of their cherished possessions

Don't worry, we don't give a shit about you either!

Lots of people who didn't elect this bunch of hard right nihilists will also lose some of their cherished possessions.

the people who actually vote in the hard right nihilists have less to lose than almost everyone else - they're already drawing their pensions so they're difficult to change, they own their houses so not affected by mortgage rates - it's only the nhs and social care which could have an impact and for the Home Counties red- trousers set that is in their 80s rather than their 60s/ 70s.

Everyone else will be shafted either way.

I don't like hard right wingers who seize public property and sell it off to the highest bidder either. It's been happening for years though.

What I really did not want to see was this extreme reaction in response. Emilyontmoor is right - both extremes are as bad as each other. So much for Corbyn's 'different politics', which is what we are really crying out for. It looks like they're all just trying to outdo each other on headlines - and the oft-quoted Lib Dems are the worst of the lot.

I already knew that by the actions of the hard right supporters,
which is why I finally decided to stop caring what a hard left Labour do when the pendulum swings and they get back in.

Apparently no decision by Supreme Court tomorrow morning. Tuesday looking increasingly likely but will know more tomorrow.

I just don't give a shit if those who elected this bunch of hard right nihilists lose some of their cherished possessions

Well that attitude isn’t really going to help is it because it isn’t just the hard right who are affected.

And before you ask, I was privately educated and don’t even agree with it now but I’m not so narrow minded that I can’t see that there’s a place for it.

The problem with starting a revolution by tearing everything down, which is Cummings' aim,
is that you can't ensure that the other lot won't be the ones to take advantage of it

We don't know whether In a few years time, No Deal Brexit will lead to hard left, hard right, or years of angry voters oscillating between these 2 extremes

which is why I finally decided to stop caring what a hard left Labour do when the pendulum swings and they get back in.

Awesome. Just as long as we know what kind of stuff you're fine with while you're busy rescuing the country.

Oh, and do you seriously think this policy isn't going to turbo-charge the movement of prosperous Remain voters - you know, the ones who actually use or would like to use private education - away from Labour towards the Lib Dems? That's a great outcome from my perspective, but perhaps not so much from yours.

I think this quote from a Labour MP (source The Independent) sums Corbyn up

He doesn’t like taking decisions, he doesn’t want to be the person who has 20 text messages to deal with before he goes to bed at midnight and is woken up at 6am with more demands on his time.

He’s happy when he’s got something to push back against, but when power becomes more real and he’s got to reconcile competing interests, he can’t do it

I'm not particularly bothered by private education - so long as charitable status is removed for all except actual charitable work, e.g. schools for those with SEN

Or about measures to help tenants - although I'd much prefer security of tenure and limits on rent increases, as works well in e.g. Germany

However, that means I'm not bothered by Labour's ideas about them
Atm, all that is in my "don't give a shit" box

Oh, and do you seriously think this policy isn't going to turbo-charge the movement of prosperous Remain voters - you know, the ones who actually use or would like to use private education - away from Labour towards the Lib Dems? That's a great outcome from my perspective, but perhaps not so much from yours.

Exactly - and why Remainers don’t see this, I’ll never know.

Labour seem to be determined to keep the focus of attention on their own stupidity rather than that of the Government

My parents both left home at 11. My mum was a forces child and my dad got a scholarship for inner city kids. I think their experiences were very different.

My mum had a dreadful experience with a Catholic convent life and clearly had big issues with her mother and I definitely think it's affected me.

My dad on the other hand loved it and it unequivocally changed his life for the better in giving him opportunities he wouldn't have otherwise had. He certainly would not have gone to university which is where he met my mum. He is however also completely emotionally detached.

They both did not want me to go through a private education and boarding school given their experiences though.

My Dad is proper Labour and Corbyn leaning. He reflects a lot on his background and how much his scholarship made the difference to him.

I think his response to whether private schools should be abolished would be along the lines of how much do they give back to kids like him and if they aren't then hell yes, they should go. But his worry on the flip of that, is to ask what opportunities are there in education now, for kids from similar backgrounds to his to escape poor schooling and difficult environments if they are talented?

Wholesale social change is needed but that type of change takes years if not generations. What happens to kids who do get rare scholarships in the meantime? If abolition in a short time frame leaves those kids to rot because the state education in their area is dreadful, that's not really going to help much.

For those reasons, for me it's one of those where I think change is needed but over time in stepped measures rather than complete abolition on day 1, with much more pressure in the interim on the social responsibility of private schools to do a lot more for less well off communities if they want to stay open. They simply are detached from reality and from other communities and that's more of the issue that needs dealing with. Close them down and you'll get up with self selection via other channels and means anyway - whether it be sending kids overseas for education or exclusive school catchup areas developing for the mega rich.

I don't like private schooling on principle but in practice I think it's a much more complex and nuanced issue and flat abolition could harm poor kids in other ways for at least a generation in other ways anyway.

Another one to be filed under 'it's not as simple as you make out'.

I've no problem if Remain votes go to the LDems
They offer a clear Remain alternative

It's just I'm not bothered by the Labour policies that are eliciting such squeals of indignation here
those policies are just the inevitable reaction by angry people to what the bottom 50% or so are suffering wrt education, public services, housing

When enough voters get angry, then the pendulum will swing and something like these policies will happen
Until then, it won't

Of course, if the Tories returned to One Nation conservatism and started tackling these fundamental problems, then they might head off the deluge
But starting off by making the country poorer, sending the economy over a cliff - doesn't make me oprimistic

Would I send my son to private school?

The thing is, where I live, this isn't really a question I've had to ponder for more than 10 seconds because there are a number of great schools nearby.

And isn't that just the point?

No one wants to send their kid to a bad school. It's just that some people have more choices than others on that score and that's the very essence of the problem rather than private school itself in many, many cases.

Didn't Tory PM Harald McMillan manage to increase public housing by building 300,000 homes per year ?

Modern Tories would be too worried about offending their voters whose house values and LL investments depend on a shortage of homes

Got to be honest that abolishing ofsted bothers me more than private school stuff.

There's plenty wrong with ofsted and it needs reform, but without it, I don't know how you identify utterly failing schools either.

BCF I am convinced that more or less all our social issues as a nation currently stem from housing and lack of it one way or another.

If you want to fix the country the single best way to do it would be through a mass building programme.

The knock on effects from that would largely unravel other problems over time.

If BJ and Cameron had veen born to poor families, gone to sink schools, or indeed to decent comprehensives, would either have become PM ?

Neither has much talent, merely superficial charm & the ability to make bollocks sound convincing

• things Eton seems to teach well