Westminstenders: Silly Season

[RedToothBrush]

It's that time of year again when politicians seem to completely lose their marbles in order to impress the faithful. And it is beginning to feel like conference season is increasingly an exercise in religious ferver to the party rather than considering what's in the best interests of the whole country.

Labour have got off to a good start before their conference opens, by almost starting complete melt down.

The Tories have promised to break from convention and try and over shadow the others, so that's something to look forward to.

And early this week we have the supreme Court ruling which could, regardless of which direction it swings, have massive ramifications for our democracy.

Big week ahead.

Kevin Schofield@polhomeeditor
A Labour MP gets in touch following the conference Brexit votes.

I'd like to be able to argue with this...

... I am really struggling.

A couple of weeks ago I was starting to lean more towards Labour.

This week has been utterly shambolic and I can see that without any help whatsoever from the media.

Some of their other policies are just returning to old-fashioned post-war socialism

Turning away from the mc voters that Blair especially brought in and trying to address the interests of the wc and especially the poorest wc

I'm a centrist, so that direction doesn't particularly appeal to me
But, maybe it is necessary to have such policies, in order to try to drag the Overton window back away from hard right policies as mainstream

However, the policy on Palestine is idiotic - there was far more debate - and motions - about Palestine than about Ireland & the backstop

I wonder if that was Watson

Red I’m sorry my attempt at humour fell flat the other day, I said ‘wind your neck in’ purely as a joke it was why I followed it with a grin emoji but I’m honestly sorry for making you think I was having a go when I would do no such thing out of respect for what you do here and I value your opinions whether I agree with the or not

flouncy The important thing about Labour Leave voters is that they are - or Labour HQ thinks they are - mostly traditional wc voters
and Labour is going through a crisis that it has become an mc party and is losing wc roots.

They are also in key Northern seats that Labour fear it might lose, if enough Lexiters abandon them

imo a lot of voters want or would accept a compromise
Currently the Tories and the LDems have policies that appeal to each end of the Brexit spectrum

The whole Brexit middle ground needs to be addressed by one party, or we have a divided nation separated by a chasm and shouting at each other from each side of it.

Unfortunately, Labour are in a spiral of infighting both over Brexit and over Corbyn's successor,
So they are making a pig's ear of what should have been a Brexit policy of conciliation !

I am in between at the moment.

I do not think JC is capable of being PM at all. And I really really can't stand Len McCluskey and he has way too much power. It's the hard Left and Lexiters that are doing the damage.

Each time I think that the reasonable Labour party will show itself. And each time I am disappointed.

But what is the alternative when you live in england? In a seat that is Tory with Labour 2nd.

The only thing I am sure of at the moment that even without Brexit, I cannot do anything that supports the current PM.

I am ashamed of this country and the fact that this charlatan with absolutely no moral compass is able to rule and his popularity increases.

@mockersthefemanist It was actually Hugo Rifkind who came up with the cheese submarine analogy.

"does this mean they really only give a shit about the 20% that have to choose?"

No, this policy is trying to avoid angering either the 80% or the 20%
A PV would let each of them choose

In fact among 2015 Labour voters, Leavers are about 30%
unfortunately, it seems Labour Remainers are furious that the party gives a shit about those 30% and won't just dump them.

Maybe this Labour policy is going to fail, because the country is too bitterly divided and too few people want to compromise:
each side wants winner take all and sod reaching out to the other side

Hugo Rifkind came up with this cheese submarine last year:
the impossibility of getting what everyone wanted from Brexit, so this is what we end up with

The trouble is Labour members think Tom Watson is the enemy. Not Boris Johnson. And probably not even No Deal. I've said this many times before in slightly different ways, Labour have got to stop fighting themselves constantly. It's electorally suicidal.

But the leadership do not give a shiny shit. They are old, white men, enabled and directed by old, white, unelected men. Who are bitter and nasty and vicious who bear years old grudges.

So much for the party being young and inclusive.

I actually don't mind their brexit policy. It's just all the other dysfunctional bullshit that has gone on around the conference that has been the nail on the coffin for me....

I disagree, I think the ones doing the most damage are those that are still trying to scupper Corbyn instead of trying to get Labour into power do we honestly think that those vulnerable people who are dying on universal credit, the kids who are going hungry or are having to be carers to a sick parent or those homeless people dying on the street give a fuck about Brexit

Harold Wilson did very well in the 1975 ref, allowing all his ministers & MPs to campaign for either Leave or Remain as they chose

However, Wilson was a very clever man and a very talented politician, so could carry it off,
whereas Corbyn is very dim and never developed political skills beyond what worked in his inglorious student agitator days

Wilson was also very secure & respected in his position as Labour leader

• unlike Corbyn with 190 or whatever of his own MPs trying to get rid of him a couple of years ago, plus his own deputy plotting to do so.

^Leave did actually win the damn ref,
so having 2 of the 3 main UK-wide parties coming out for Revoke really could look like pissing all over the 52%^

For most of the country there will be a Tory candidate standing in the Constituency, so that is who people need to vote for, if it bothers them.

Poster Labour have lost so many wc votes because the mc takeover of the party seems more interested in issues like Palestine and trans rights,
rather than the core issues of traditional Labour - which very much include supporting the poor and the homeless

Blair & Mandelson were happy that some people were "filthy rich", which is ok, but not when you cba with those who are "filthy poor"

peregrina So you think 1 No Dealer vs 2 Revokers would better reflect how the ref went ?

I actually don't mind their brexit policy. It's just all the other dysfunctional bullshit that has gone on around the conference that has been the nail on the coffin for me....

^This

Bear you must struggle in RL if your mental accuity can’t see nuance but needs to see a binary polar opposite choice so I think perhaps on this issue, it’s you not us, I think you should start seeing other people

It does piss me off that you can’t discuss this without being insulting towards me but it seems that’s your way just

Anyway, the quote that Labour MP RTB just posted summed it up really

So you think 1 No Dealer vs 2 Revokers would better reflect how the ref went ?

Given that constituencies tend to be Tory/Labour or Tory/LibDem yes, no problem. And much though I might like the LibDems to make a big breakthrough, realistically they are still going to be the third or 4th party.

Now in Scotland that's different - either Labour/LibDem revoke or SNP revoke, but since Scotland voted Remain - that's fine too.

But Corbyn is not going to get in power.