Westminstenders: Constitutional History

[RedToothBrush]

The Supreme Court case continues
(ruling possible Friday but likely Monday)

The new NI proposal is bollocks and Johnson didn't get why until it was discussed in Europe.

There was a press conference in Luxembourg which looks good for Johnson.

Johnsons approval ratings are up.

And we are making no obvious progress to anything but no deal...

Presumably when they spaff on about "surviving the war/rationing" they're talking about some other war

So the current plan is keep asking the same question in a different way.

By a different person (a man) and hope for a different reply.

Genius.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/fresh-brexit-talks-row-uk-eu-proposals-secret

What the hell are the government playing at? Do they even have the tiniest grasp of what the EU is? They are demanding that their 'non documents' are government property and therefore cannot be shared with the EU27. So they don't want the countries they're negotiating with to know anything about the negotiations. How does that work then?

And as for Raab, he doesn't even want EU negotiators to have copies of the UK's plan in case they leak it. So he wants them to engage while wearing a blindfold with their hands tied behind their backs.

So basically the new plan is, we have alternative arrangements but they're a secret so we can't share them with the EU until the EU after the EU agrees to accept them. FFS!

My dad was born in 1930, only thing he really mentioned about the war was he didn't eat chocolate til his 20s. Oh and a bit of bombing...but not much!

DM was born in 1937, and developed a very sweet tooth after not having access to sweets until 1953. of course we all know that rationing lasted longer than the war itself (much like the 60s revivla lasted longer than the 60s) , so it would be patronising to note that here.

She also remembered doodlebugs, and her younger brother (my Uncle) pointing at them and saying "stop". Until one did.

When her DM (my Nan) slipped into the cruel twilight of dementia, she spent the last couple of years in the 1990s convinced the war was still on. She'd ask my aunt if she got through the bombs alright, and what streets had been lost. So not everyone had the "jolly old blighty" war the Francois' of this world onanise to.

In other news, the Deputy Leader of Labour doesn't want there to be a Brexit "Deal" and tells them to vote against it. So having been understandably determined to stop a "No Deal" they now decide not to vote for "Deal" at all.

People might remember that I said ages ago that the MPs pushing to stop "No Deal" needed to be crystal clear that they weren't about stopping Brexit. To their credit a small minority of them were but sadly that nuance has just been blown out of the water by Watson and Co.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/19/peoples-vote-tells-labour-mps-not-to-back-a-johnson-brexit-deal

41 days left Tom.

What the hell are the government playing at?

Any Bruce Lee fans here ?

Mine is the art of fighting without fighting ....

Seems the UK is channelling that as Ours is the art of negotiating without negotiating ...

Let's see who gets set adrift in a boat.

I did type Hillington initially , but hadn't noticed that bloody autocarrot () had "corrected" me

They are demanding that their 'non documents' are government property and therefore cannot be shared with the EU27.

If it wasn’t so serious, it could easily be part of the latest comedy show tbh.
I think that BJ has no trust whatsoever ever in anyone in the government and that’s why he refuses to let anyone know what is in the ‘non papers’ (aka there is nothing in them but I need people to THINK I’m trying hard and it’s the EU who isn’t playing ball).
OR he is worried that the EU might actually agree about his proposal and he has to follow through. Yay ok that one is highly unlikely

Asked about claims from the Irish government that the two sides are far apart in their negotiating positions, Barclay added: “I think there is still a lot of work to do but there is a common purpose to secure a deal.”

Well, d'uh

And anyway, a common purpose is not the same as a common realism

As long as the UK's position is predicated on the existence of unicorns and complaining that the EU won't accept that they exist, then the time is going to be wasted

Robert Peston@peston
Cutting through all the noise (@riso_stephanie departure, @JunckerEU and @BorisJohnson warm words about wanting deal), it is crystal clear UK and EU are as far from agreement to replace backstop as ever. Multiple sources tell me that Johnson’s “non paper” proposals to...

keep open border on island of Ireland are seen in Brussels and EU capitals as an utter waste of time, and that Johnson is as far away as ever from what the EU regards as a possible “landing zone”. There will be one last push, one last chance, after Tory conference. But till...

then it is full steam ahead with no deal preparations on both sides.

The Octogenarian Brexiteers who were actually alive during the war are amongst those glorifying it and hankering for a return to the Blitz spirit in the face of no deal. I have seen several posts exhorting me to grow my own and make jam like their mothers used to do, enough to make me want to stop! I suppose you do look back at your childhood through rose tinted specs. Watching Life on Mars bought me up against the grey realities of the 70s though I have never thought that recession, the three day week and the miners strike were our finest hour and I have always understood we were saved by the EU....

we are still missing the obligatory kissing a baby picture....

Have we had 'blue collar worker' look yet? White shirt, no tie, sleeves rolled up.

Or the reflective jacket on a building site photo op? Generally looking bewildered and a bit lost whilst roaming around.

Ooh oohhh! Don't forget 'Common man down the pub with a pint'.

I'm trying to remember what rules would be in place if there was an actual general election taking place. Would Johnson, no longer being PM, have so much access to military chiefs etc? Is he benefiting from there not being an election called in this way?

OMG this is even more embarrassing than Theresa May running backwards and forwards asking for extensions.

This lot don't seem to have a clue about anything.

But surely the "optics" Ellie is that are now looking like the are trying? Worries me.

In terms of "optics" its pretty bloody obvious that Johnson couldn't go into his party conference having thrown in the towel.

What surprises me, given the above, is the suggestion that they Could be any closer if the position of one side is "nothing changes." Surely, if that is true, it's a given that they cannot be. So the suggestion from Peston that Boris 'is far away as ever from what the EU regards as a possible “landing zone”' is vexatious. There is no "landing zone" to be found.

Question:

Why do these non papers which are shite have to be kept secret?

Is that because they are shite and Johnson wants to avoid scrutiny of their shitness whilst simultaneously saying 'oooh look we've been negotiating with non papers are we serious about a deal'?

And how can you be serious about negotiating if you don't want to tell the countries you are trying to make a deal with, how you want to make a deal?

Unless it's to go 'mean EU leaking secret shite non plan bollocks Wah Wah Wah look how they are treating us'.

David Henig @davidheniguk
No suggestion of harmonious negotiations here. Though I don't recall the EU insisting on the US sharing their negotiating papers with Member States in TTIP talks. As I said before, US secrecy in those talks was a mistake like UK secrecy is now
amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/fresh-brexit-talks-row-uk-eu-proposals-secret?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
Fresh Brexit talks row as UK asks EU to keep its proposals secret
Downing Street tells Brussels negotiators documents must not be shared with 27 states

David Henig @davidheniguk
I would love to see what the UK government thinks is their negotiating strategy with regard to EU Member States. As far as I can tell for three years it has been to alternately threaten them, then ask them to support us over the Commission. Now they want not to give them papers

Yes, Member States leak papers easily. Commission as negotiator generally less so. But to be honest if you're that terrified of some non-papers leaking you proably have much bigger problems than leaked papers anyway. Like underworked ideas and insufficient political support.

Don't worry I'm sure the British press will leak the non papers from a UK source soon enough.

I know we've had them explained on here, but the "optics" of non papers surely looks shite to most people?

Non papers are supposed to make the UK look like they are making an effort to get a deal, rather than going 'we support no deal' outright. That way if it all goes tits up, the EU can be blamed for rejecting our 'negotiated offer'.

Anyone who knows it's bollocks, knows its bollocks.

But lots of people don't care what's in the papers and will just say 'oh well the government wouldn't hand in bull shit homework, they aren't that stupid'. Because they want to 'Believe in Boris' and the fantasy of leaving without a deal.

David Blevins @skydavidblevins
That holy water exchange in full: Jokingly given holy water to take to his next meeting with Boris Johnson, Leo Varadkar asked: “Do I throw it over him?” #Brexit

t.co/kKBduAVyaZ

Well we've done milkshakes. Why not holywater?

Yeah I have to admit it does tobee

I think we are in a situation where the political atmosphere is now so toxic that those opposed to the Government's position would automatically trash the papers regardless of what they said.

I thought it was battery acid that was the weapon of choice, no?