If you can’t get what you want... what would you settle for? (Remainers and brexiters)

[Flopjustwantscoffee]

Just curiosity really about if there’s any space for compromise given how polarized the arguement is getting. Personally I voted remain and don’t want to leave at all, but No Deal being the absolute worst outcome (in my opinion) Id be happy with us leaving with some variation of Theresa May’s deal or other compromise (well, not happy, less unhappy).
If you are pro-remain would you accept leaving with a deal to accept the risk of no deal? If you’re a leaver would your second option at this stage be to leave with No Deal or find a compromise with the EU (and if so what)?

Care to answer the original OP Mysterytripagain? What would you compromise on?

That helps to prove the point Mystery - if Rees-Mogg and Co had voted for the WA the first or the second time, then May with her slender DUP enhanced majority plus 2 to 4 Labour votes and 4 Independent would have got it through.

I voted remain and I would settle for soft Brexit CU/SM (as I don't think it will be beneficial leaving these), labour 'deal' or TM's WA.

Care to answer the original OP Mysterytripagain? What would you compromise on?

First of all you need to remember that a negotiation takes place between TWO PARTIES. Therefore BOTH PARTIES NEED TO COMPROMISE to avoid a no deal exit by UK from the EU.

EU have stated that WA signed by T May (illegally in contradiction of the Miller Case Law) can't be revisited. So it is correct to say they are making no compromises since Johnson took over.

However, DUPers and ERGers have said they will not accept the WA.

DUP argue that WA contradicts the GFA as it changes NI status from UK . ERG want no deal anyway.

If enough labour MP's change their mind the WA might get through parliament. If not then there are the following possibilities;

The Benn Act is amended to extend beyond Jan 2020 and EU agrees. So remain supporters might think they are getting remain through the back door, but not correct. For as long as there is uncertainty, sterling will be weak and some employers may leave the UK based on uncertainty. Service sector is particularly precarious as very easy to relocate. Other than; office space, computers and telecoms what else is needed?

UK leaves with no deal and labour MP's are held accountable for thwarting the WA for times consecutively in the past.

So it is about EU and Ireland deciding what they want to protect most. The EU laws or the GFA and decide accordingly.

An open border sticks 2 up to EU laws, but protects the GFA and vice versa.

UK does not have that dilemma. WTO does not require a hard border and UK can sit back and wait for the EU to make the first move.

NI would become a prime target for suppliers of dodgy products in the knowledge there is an easy path into Ireland the rest of the EU. Anything that did not meet EU standards that originated in Ireland and resulted in disease in EU would be to Ireland's account.

Suggestion of NI only backstop and special economic zone would get backlash from DUP, ERG and Scotland. However, most dangerous of all is the demand from other Countries who border Eastern Europe for the same special treatment. May even end up with wars in Eastern Europe?

So what you want Mystery is.....?
Or are you applying for a job as a political commentator, or perhaps a Lecturer in Current Affairs?

Remainer here’s: Customs Union and Freedom of movement.
I just want it done because the country is so divided and there are zillions of other issues to deal with and nothing can move forward with the uncertainty.
I think even the EU wants us gone.
The only deal which has been ratified is TM’s WA so we’ll probably end up with that.

There is no requirement for the EU to compromise- they aren’t leaving and their duty is to protect the best interests of their members not the leaving country. Boris needs to start presenting alternatives to them if he wants a different arrangement.

The negotiations will start between the UK and EU after/if the UK leaves although the UK has little power for a good deal with the EU or any other country protected by the most favoured nation clauses.

What Bertrand said.

Two parties are negotiating but one (us) set ridiculously strict red lines which leave v little room for flexibility unless we (mainly the erg) loosen said red lines.

I’d accept a soft Brexit that saw us staying in the single market and customs union.

Prominent members of the leave campaign promised we’d stay in the single market. The result was very close. This would be the best compromise and the only thing the close advisory referendum gave a true mandate for.

Please mysterytripagain, tell us your personal response to the OP. Be as succinct as you like

Mystery has no interest in doing anything other than derailing a thread he doesn't like.

Oh I know. The long screeds are entirely counter productive

There is no requirement for the EU to compromise- they aren’t leaving and their duty is to protect the best interests of their members not the leaving country

Article 50 anticipates that no deal may occur. Nothing in Article 50 does not say a member may not leave if other members don’t like it or they may be disadvantaged in any way.

What is your response to the OP, mysterytripagain? What would you settle for if you couldn’t have what you want?

Leave with a deal.

Free trade agreement with EU. That means there is no need for Ireland to install a border in accordance with EU law.

Think Ireland would go for that. Downside for EU is they come under pressure to relax borders in Eastern Europe.

Free trade agreement with EU. That means there is no need for Ireland to install a border

Name two countries outside the EU which have a FTA and no border.

We'll wait.

That doesn’t sound like a compromise - that sounds like a demand. So if you can’t have those things, what would you settle for?

Remainer living in NI, I'll accept any form of leaving that doesn't harm the GFA.

I felt the same the morning after the referendum, but I didn't really believe no deal would ever be a possibility at that time.

Mystery - the EU aren’t stopping the UK leaving. The UK are doing that themselves by being unable or unwilling to agree amongst themselves what they want.

The UK are doing that themselves by being unable or unwilling to agree amongst themselves what they want

Look at the results of the three votes on the WA. Labour, who are vast majority remains supporters, prevented UK from leaving on 29 March 2019. Brexit has not happened because labour thought fthey could force an election. Since Brexit Party did well in May EU elections labour have remained silent on election.

The EU have just voted in favour of granting an extension to Article 50 when the UK request it.

Labour, who are vast majority remains supporters, prevented UK from leaving on 29 March 2019.

We have been round this loop more than once. We were told categorically that 80% of people voted for parties which supported Leave. If that is the case then Labour people can't be a vast majority of remain supporters or they would have voted differently.

Name two countries outside the EU which have a FTA and no border

Zero as EU is a cartel that protects their own profits by denying access to cheaper goods from elsewhere. Restrictions on goods, alcohol, tobacco, etc., that people can bring into the EU.

The same Cuban cigar in Dubai costs one third of UK price, even though it has to travel further.

Lots of Labour voters/socialists are natural Leavers. The Labour/Tory Leave/Remain dichotomy is completely false.

Reports from the EU today - MEPs adopted a resolution insisting that any Brexit deal must include the Irish backstop, or equivalent legally-binding guarantees. The text, which also calls on the UK to produce written proposals on a backstop alternative, was passed by 544 to 126 MEPs.
It also shows the parliament’s support for a Brexit extension in a wide range of circumstances, including avoiding no-deal, an election, second referendum, ratifying the agreement or revoking article 50.