Westminstenders: It's like a bloody aviary

[RedToothBrush]

From Flamingos to Yellowhammer and Black Swans.

The Tory Remainer is now a Dodo. Instead the party in inhabited by disaster capitalist Vultures. Jeremy Corbyn, meanwhile, has been labelled by the right wing press as a Chicken. The SNP would very much like Boris Johnson to be a Jailbird. The LDs are keen to sing like Canaries about the contents of BlackSwan. The Br

And the Tower of London is starting to get very jumpy about the whereabouts and location of its Ravens.

I would not, however, advise eating urban wild pigeons if things get desperate, from what I know of their health.

But you're getting ahead of yourself.

All that matters right now is that:

1. They're doing all they can to avoid no deal (if they weren't, JC would've fallen into the GE trap); and
2. They'll offer a PV on any deal they manage to negotiate (or the WA if they don't succeed), which will be remain v THE deal.

Why isn't that enough for you, as it stands? It's perfectly clear enough and offers both sides the chance to say what they want. Not every leaver can be happy; there are too many versions of 'leave'. Therefore, the - Labour - government will act like the grown up and say 'If you want to leave, we leave like this, this option is your only choice.' Or we stay, if there's a majority for that instead.

Like giving a small child a choice of two defined options. They don't have to be enamoured by either, but they're the only choices they're getting!

Goodnight, Bear.

Seriously, if you are posting in good faith, I'll share this:

2 years ago, maybe even last year, I was running around, moaning about Labour's leadership. All I can say is that we are well past that point now.

You've got to be like Elsa and let it go.

You've got to be like Elsa and let it go.

If all else fails, follow Disney's lead! 😁😂

2 years ago, maybe even last year, I was running around, moaning about Labour's leadership. All I can say is that we are well past that point now

I won’t apologise for having higher standards than that.

I’ll leave you all in peace until we see what the great JC has to say at the Labour conference.

Night all.

Nobody is relying on JC becoming PM to save us,
but apart from MPs approving the current WA, he is the only feasible route to avoiding No Deal

If anyone can suggest another, then do say

(But not the mad idea that the leader of the Labour party should resign and sacrifice himself to maybe improve the chances of saving the country from a disaster caused by the Tory party)

I'm laughing here because I'm nodding vigorously at BigChoc. Again.

Must.stop.posting.this.

I don't understand Bearbehind's thinking at all.

I'm not a Corbyn fan particularly but he has been clear that he doesn't want no deal (good) and will put any deal negotiated by a putative government led by him to a people's vote in a clear choice that will allow us to vote on actual real alternatives (also good).

Should he get into power it will likely be as part of a coalition of some kind so anyone worried about his policies can be reassured that the coalition partners will likely rein him in to some extent.

Unless you actively want no deal, I can't really see the downsides of a probably short-lived Corbyn-led government.

I see that Bearbehind again and again posts that they don't get what the offer is, despite links to eg BBC so reasonably reputable new sources. I can only conclude that Bearbehind is deliberately trying to muddy the waters for some reason that is unclear to me but is definitely actively favouring no deal. Weird.

What's interesting about Westminstenders is how there is an increasing breadth of political views being expressed

^^ This. With the caveat that you can have your own opinions but if you start trying to have your own facts someone on here with point this out. Usually politely.

Your hair is on fire. Put out the fire then calm down, think clearly and go from there.

Don’t be too fussy who puts the fire out.

The bloke from next door with a bucket will do in the absence of a fire officer.

The bloke from next door with a bucket will do in the absence of a fire officer.

This exactly. Whatever works.

I see that Bearbehind again and again posts that they don't get what the offer is, despite links to eg BBC so reasonably reputable new sources. I can only conclude that Bearbehind is deliberately trying to muddy the waters for some reason that is unclear to me but is definitely actively favouring no deal. Weird.

Sorry, I was off but have to respond to that

All that is on offer from Labour is ‘not no deal’.

It’s not at all clear which red lines will be dropped in order to achieve a deal

And unless some red lines change, Labour would be sent away with their tail between their legs just like the Tories were.

If you think that makes me some kind of no deal troll then you need to give your head a wobble.

Should he get into power it will likely be as part of a coalition of some kind so anyone worried about his policies can be reassured that the coalition partners will likely rein him in to some extent.

Really, how bad can his policies possibly be compared to Boris proroguing parliament, threatening to ignore the law if it doesn't suit him, and then the past ten years of Austerity? I lived through the last supposed hard-left labour government in the 1970s (I don't think anyone thinks Blair was hard left), and I don't recall it being anything like as lawless as this government are.

Genuinely, what do people think he is going to do? Boris himself has said he's going to increase public spending, so it can't be that. Nationalising the railways? Like France and Germany (hardly hotbeds of communism)?

Now I have an ear worm, in three different languages.

I am changing my vote this time under the hair on fire principle.

I will need to think carefully which party will be best in my constituency.

All that is on offer from Labour is ‘not no deal’

Quite a reasonable offer for a party not in power.

I do like the "hair on fire" analogy.

First priority is to douse the fire . Then you can worry about who put it out, whether you owe then any obligation, whether they were partly responsible , before even beginning to think about what style of hair style you might want in future

Your hair might even grow back in curly, having been straight before, so you might change your mind totally about what would suit you

Sashkin And you can throw closed hospitals - with No Deal - into the mix, too.

I just find it incredible that people aren't looking at their constituency & thinking, 'I don't care ... I just need to make sure everyone I know votes to avoid No Deal.'

But no.

Apparently, people are still looking at it all like they're choosing from a tin of Roses towards the end of Boxing Day. 🤷‍♀️

I don't get it. Hospital closures would surely focus the mind. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

We are truly in a bizarre moment.

All that is on offer from Labour is ‘not no deal’.

This is better than the people currently in power, surely?

However, for the hard of thinking, including you @Bearbehind, there is also the offer of a vote on the eventual deal versus remain. Unless you are some kind of no deal troll I find it hard to understand why this would be a bad thing in your universe.

By the way, in the cross party talks which broke down before May resigned, Labour were clearly pushing for a closer union rather than a hard brexit. Maybe you just haven't been reading the papers. Give it a go, and not just the Mail.

Yes, a big positive for Corbyn / Labour: supporting the NHS and the welfare state, instead of winding them down.

One big advantage Corbyn would have in negotiations is that he is a lifelong supporter of Irish reunification
So the backstop isn't the problem for him that it was for May, BJ or would be for any Tory.

That helps too because he won't be spending 99% of the time on NI;
it's sorted, even without SM, so immediately Ireland would be reassured and onside, instead of blocking.

His main red line is being able to carry out his socialist policies
So his red lines would be different to May's
He may no longer want to stop FOM, if polls show it is much less of an issue now.

Anyway, it is very unreasonable to expect him at this stage to say exactly what red lines he'd relax or drop completely
It would be extraordinary e.g. in business negotiations, to publish in advance what you are willing to concede !

He doesn't know if he would be PM with C&S and hence whether other parties' red lines have to be considered
He doesn't know what the EU would offer, maybe things the Tories ruled out,
e.g. Associate Membership or outer ring of EEA, which Cameron refused

I’m in a fairly safe labour seat with a very very good labour MP. DH wants to vote Ld but I’ve yet to understand how which basis...the borough two streets away has always been Tory (3 MPs!) but at the last election they were only 2 points over labour. Unfortunately it’s also a fairly Jewish area, and I don’t think it’ll be that easy for labour to progress. If instead of getting revolting pictures of Bj and puppy in the press we would get a serious intervention of JC against antisemitism....
Anyway
Nighty night
The twitter feed by Goodall really cheered me up. The comments are spectacular!

and of course, since the SPD in many EU countries have carried out similar policies to Labour's,
Corbyn may find he doesn't need red lines, but just needs to discuss FOM and how e.g. other countries handle benefit claims

Maybe when people have voted Tory all their lives and it turns out the Tory party have made an incredible mess and are now talking about breaking the law and destroying the country, those people still find it easier to focus on what is wrong with Labour. Psychologically. Or can't accept that Labour might have some kind of practical conclusion. Just can't get their heads around it. I'm not sure. It must be difficult.

To have a manic laugh about it all, don't forget John Bull / Garius:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1169666332289318923.html

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1168887968511250436.html

Thanks, BigChoc, will check out. 🙂