Westminstenders: It's like a bloody aviary

[RedToothBrush]

From Flamingos to Yellowhammer and Black Swans.

The Tory Remainer is now a Dodo. Instead the party in inhabited by disaster capitalist Vultures. Jeremy Corbyn, meanwhile, has been labelled by the right wing press as a Chicken. The SNP would very much like Boris Johnson to be a Jailbird. The LDs are keen to sing like Canaries about the contents of BlackSwan. The Br

And the Tower of London is starting to get very jumpy about the whereabouts and location of its Ravens.

I would not, however, advise eating urban wild pigeons if things get desperate, from what I know of their health.

80s Stoke Newington :-) ....2019 Stoke newington is more like vegan-protein-smoothie waver on the doorstop of an edible flower cake decorator....

I wonder how traditional LibDem members\voters are feeling about their party accepting so many Tories and are willing to stand aside in some Tory seats

I am keeping an eye on things - as long as it's moderates from the left of the Tory party and the moderates from the right of Labour, it should be OK. It will make the party a broad church as once Labour and Tories used to be. Don't forget the LibDems were Liberal and Social Democrats who were Labour. As for seats - some constituencies have still to chose candidates, so there should be scope. Whether the new people get elected or not - well, we will have to see.

I wonder how traditional LibDem members\voters are feeling about their party accepting so many Tories and are willing to stand aside in some Tory seats even thought the Tories support Brexit nd LibDems are now a revoke party, something isn’t adding up

Traditional Lib Dem voters?

What are they?

Seriously though the LD members I know who have been members since pre-2010 wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Some newer post 2016 defectors from Labour might, but I'm not sure you can call them traditional LDers either.

The long term LDers I know are not a million miles off some soft Tories I know. They share a lot of values though have some big differences too.

I find that some older LDs (who stayed despite tuition fees) either still think the coalition was a good thing or are only just waking up to the dawning realisation that austerity was a very bad thing. Because they have been from pretty sheltered middle class backgrounds.

The LDs I know are a strange mix. Some are economically conservative but socially liberal and some are socially economic but socially conservative.

It's only more recent LDs who are a lot more hostile to soft Tories if I'm honest and that's the more authoritarian streak that's appeared.

And... that would be the point of blaming the EU. As Ian Dunt pointed out, it's a one-two:

1. austerity
2. blame someone else. Usually foreigners. Start a crusade of one sort or another against the scapegoats.

It's not exactly novel.

Yep! I've toured the Kingspan and Rockwool factories (boozy night out in Leominster with the former and Cardiff with the latter!).

All good fun.

Re: polls; they're all over the bloody shop. I don't trust any of them, as they can't all be right (and some are showing a 1 point difference). And look what happens with a massive poll lead: the 2017 GE result. So, yeah, unreliable.

80s Stoke Newington :-) ....2019 Stoke newington is more like vegan-protein-smoothie waver on the doorstop of an edible flower cake decorator....

Lol - I lived in Stoke Newington in the 1980s, in a granny flat that belonged to a very SN family of the yoghurt weaving persuasion, and next door to a famous actor. But it was still a very mixed area to say the least, and except for a few streets mostly quite poor.

I wonder how traditional LibDem members\voters are feeling about their party accepting so many Tories and are willing to stand aside in some Tory seats

I think there is a fairly large overlap between the right of the LP, the LDs and the left of the Tories ... often party membership is more tribal than policy-driven. And many people in the centre of politics have a mix of views that are not completely compatible with any party.

@CendrillonSings, are you Allison Pearson? She’s just tweeted exactly the same thing.

Re: polls; they're all over the bloody shop

But surely, with austerity and the fact that BJ is a fucking loon, the opposition should be streets ahead in every single poll.

LDs starting to look a bit like a British LREM (Macron's party). I don't know whether that is a good or a bad thing.

I must be VERY thick

Corbyn has said
elect me and I'll negotiate a new deal and then campaign for remain
WHY
would the EU waste 30 seconds negotiating a deal with him when he'd then campaign to make their work irrelevant.

Corbyn is utterly deluded if he thinks he can appeal to both Leavers and Remainers

Has he not seen the data on identity (less than half of voters identify with a party, more than 80% identify on Brexit)

Corbyn is a Tory Mole.

But surely, with austerity and the fact that BJ is a fucking loon, the opposition should be streets ahead in every single poll.

They probably would be if the MSM weren’t so intent on painting Corbyn as a Marxist traitor. And if Labour would just make up its bloody mind where it stands on Brexit.

This is depressing news for the longterm

Polls show the young overwhelmingly support the left, so this poll - like others I'v seen - suggests we have leftwing authoritarianism to look forward to later,
once the older rightwing authoritarians have died out

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/younger-voters-want-strongman-leader-new-study-claims-vp28t6mns

Years of austerity and Brexit uncertainty have created a generation of authoritarian younger voters who are less interested in democracy than strong leadership, research suggests.

A study of more than 5,000 people found that

two thirds of younger voters were in favour of “strongman leadersrs_” prepared to defy parliament.^

A quarter believe that democracy is a bad thing while a similar number would support having the army, rather than politicians, running the country.

The poll, by the Conservative think tank Onward, chimes with private research by Dominic Cummings, the former head of Vote Leave who is one of Mr Johnson’s key advisers.
Both studies found that voters overwhelmingly prioritised the “security” of a strong state over liberal policies such as individual freedom and tax cuts
< so the future isn't low tax either >

They probably would be if the MSM weren’t so intent on painting Corbyn as a Marxist traitor. And if Labour would just make up its bloody mind where it stands on Brexit.

The former is a cop out, the latter is the problem.

That link showing Corbyn supporting a PV was from Tuesday, after parliament was suspended and after voting against a GE - prior to that I’m not aware of him committing to it.

How come Corbyn is getting it for (as far as I can see) following what the party and Labour supporters broadly want, although it may not be what he personally favours ?

It was OK when it was Mrs. T ....

Listening

Labour's position isn't up to him - it will be decided at Conference.

And - so what if Labour, as a Party, is neutral?
It can then negotiate in good faith and you, the voter, can decide - on an actual deal, not a blank space.

It's not that complicated. Or disingenuous.

It's actually pretty sensible.

And what should have happened befor A50 wS triggered.

Honestly, I think we've all been lied to so, so much that we don't know what we want or need any more.

Alsohuman

Either that, or more than one person in the country can read polls...

listeningquietly The EU did say they'd be happy to negotiate a new deal if a new PM drops red lines
AND
if the Uk decides what it wants, so the govt has a majority to pass any deal

They would be happy to negotiate a new deal and spend all that time on it ..... especially if it leads to a Remain vote
Seriously, no deal that anyone could negotiate would be as good as Remain,
but half the public don't yet agree

If we get 2, 3, 5 years pause while negotiations go on quietly, not like under DD or Raab, then passions may cool and sense prevail

How come Corbyn is getting it for (as far as I can see) following what the party and Labour supporters broadly want, although it may not be what he personally favours?

Because he generally ignores what his party wants and goes with his own agenda.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/snickers-announces-its-changing-name-20062423.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Snickers announces it's changing its name back to Marathon after nearly 30 years
Marathon became Snickers in 1990, but the original name of the beloved chocolate is returning

This seems very 2019...

Stop it, BigChoc.

You're dangling hope again.

And, as Nigella Lawson tweeted, hope is painful.

As I've said on here before, I'm a Tory Remainer, but definitely in that order, and Corbyn as PM is my absolute red line. I don't particularly care about Boris, but find me a way out of Brexit that doesn't put Corbyn in charge and I'll metaphorically bite your hand off.

polls all over the place
Apart from the context and question framing - if I was putin/camp followers then the poll systems would be a prime target - both to direct the media conversation and to sow confusion.

Yes - I don't feel that it's all over the place as a policy to not commit to supporting a particular deal until the deal is done. It's actually pretty damn sensible.
Labour MPs as a whole may not be sold on the idea of brexit but they feel honour bound to go to the EU and represent the 52% and see what they can get. But whatever what they end up looks like - they're going to be honest with the voters about how good/ bad it is and let us decide.

I'd rather they negotiated a deal and then admitted it was a bit shit than negotiate a shit deal and campaign on a platform of it being wonderful

Last night of the proms playing the can can as Eu flags wave in the audience.

catfromjapan
THe referendum was WELL OVER three years ago
WTF are labour doing STILL deciding on a policy
well over two years after A50 was invoked

Sorry but its a shambles
Labour policy could be led by the Leader if he was capable
but he's not
and needs to go (as Kier rightly said)