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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

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Thread gallery
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NotaRealLawyer · 10/09/2019 19:10

The narrative now moves from fear over meds shortages, to media reports of a dependent prescription drug addled lumpen, who are a drain on the resources of Society.

No need for Black Triangles, the data is gathered already

I've spent years listening to traumatic tales of people who are in the ESA/PIP/benefits systems. Long portrayed as scroungers.

These last years and months, I'm reminded of AktionT4, the Nazi euthanasia programme to exterminate the disabled.

Kenny Fries of the Black Triangle Campaign explains better than I ever could, in this article he wrote a while back.

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2018/04/19/the-nazis-first-victims-were-disabled-people-by-kenny-fries/

borntobequiet · 10/09/2019 19:11

Well if LDs are serious about Remain/Revoke, I might be out there leafleting for Labour. I can’t believe I just typed that.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:27

John Hyde @johnhyde1982
Had it confirmed that neither the Domestic Abuse Bill nor the Divorce Bill were subject to a last-minute carry-over motion. Both will have to be started from scratch if they are brought back in the next parliament. #Prorogation

The domestic abuse Bill had only had its first reading, but its lost time nonetheless.

John Hyde @johnhyde1982
Aside from policy issues, the sheer waste of time and effort is staggering.
Divorce Bill alone has required:
* 8 hours of debate in Commons
* 39-page briefing paper
* 10 amendment papers
* 26-page impact assessment.

All for nothing.
#Prorogation

The divorce bill would have stopped the need to attribute blame and a two year separation, instead replacing it by just stating that the marriage has broken down irretrievably after six months separation. It was supported by 73% of the public according to a YouGov survey in April.

Chris White @cgwOMT
12 Govt Bills fell:
Agriculture
Animal Welfare (Sentencing)
Census (Return Particulars & Removal of Penalties)
Courts and Tribunals (Online Procedure)
Divorce, Dissolution & Separation
Domestic Abuse
Financial Services (Implementation of Legislation)
Fisheries
Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal)
Non-Domestic Rating (Lists)
Non-Domestic Rating (Public Lavatories) [HL]
Trade Bill

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Peregrina · 10/09/2019 19:27

These last years and months, I'm reminded of AktionT4, the Nazi euthanasia programme to exterminate the disabled.

On this subject I recommend Therese Down's The End of Law, which is a novel, but not a comforting read. As I commented earlier on the BBC programme about the Nazis, there were people who objected. There were people who did what they could, often at great personal risk to themselves.

Now I don't think that Johnson, Gove or Rees-Mogg are evil like many of the Nazis were, but Johnson especially is lazy and would drift into something because he couldn't be bothered to stop it. Gove and Rees-Mogg, I think, might just discover their consciences.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:35

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
New: DUP once again flat out rejects NI-only backstop after talks with Boris Johnson in Downing Street

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
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RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:40

Oh and this bullshit is back

Channel 4 news @
Exclusive: Johnson considering building bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland. Report by @cathynewman
www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-johnson-considering-building-bridge-between-scotland-and-northern-ireland
Exclusive: Johnson considering building bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland
Documents seen by Channel 4 News reveal that the Treasury and Department for Transport have been asked for advice on possible costs and risks.

Sems idea is now being taken seriously...

Cathy Newman @cathynewman
A bridge too far or a bridge over troubled waters? My report on government documents I’ve seen on @BorisJohnson plan to link Scotland & Northern Ireland by bridge. One engineer said it was easier to build a bridge to the moon...

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bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 19:40

Call it something else, bung in some cash, no one will notice.
Big Fish. Small Pond. That's what the DUP need to twig. And you can't take your electorate for granted.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:42

I guess we are all supposed to talk about the fucking bridge, not the dodgy shit with data.

So don't talk about the fucking bridge.

Its a trick Trump uses a lot to distract you all from the important stuff.

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PerkingFaintly · 10/09/2019 19:43

Mm. Maybe I've spent too much time Trump-watching, but that bridge wheeze just stinks of dead cat.

PerkingFaintly · 10/09/2019 19:43

Ha! Cross-post!Grin

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:43

Daniel Kraemer @ dcakraemer
All 4 main Brexit bills have fallen with prorogation:
- Trade
- Agriculture
- Fisheries
- Immigration

Originally seen as vital, especially in a no-deal scenario

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JeSuisPoulet · 10/09/2019 19:45

BoZo bridge has already been tried in London and failed. Agree it is a distraction from Yellowhammer - no sign of that yet and I'm unsure why journo's aren't pushing for that more?

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:48

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
Zac Goldsmith now attends cabinet as Defra minister of state

Liz Truss minister for women and equalities

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RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:49

Chris Skidmore gets Jo Johnson’s gig as University Minister

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Alsohuman · 10/09/2019 19:49

It’s not even a new idea, it’s been around for years. And most definitely a distraction.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:52

Duncan Robinson @duncanrobinson
Government have free rein for next five weeks to launch their election campaign. No purdah, no media balance rules, looser (ish) spending rules. Not a bad position to be in.

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chomalungma · 10/09/2019 19:54

I was thinking today about how the demographics have changed.
A whole load of youngsters who were 15 when the referendum happened and can now vote.

There is a massive demographic out there that needs to be tapped - as was pointed out before, it's those people who don't usually vote who were crucial in the referendum.

I hope that Labour and the Lib Dems are doing their research.

I have also been a bit surprised by how little people know about what's going on - I know many people don't really know the ins and outs of what's going on - but few people know about prorogation, recess and the ins and outs at the moment

I have spent too much time on such threads and watching BBC Parliament. It must be remembered that most people aren't as informed - and that is something that needs addressing urgently in the next 5 weeks - or else other people will inform people differently.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 19:56

Yvette Cooper @yvettecoopermp
Parliament has been cancelled for 5 weeks so our @CommonsHomeAffs formal evidence session on No Deal preparations cannot take place. So instead we are meeting informally - still taking public evidence from the Borders Inspectorate & the Freight Transport Assoc at 10am

Because of prorogation there’s no broadcast from this morning’s @CommonsHomeAffs but here’s some things we heard;

Border force already overstretched & no clarity about how many extra staff will be in place by October 31 (NAO says up to 2,000 needed)......

Freight Transport Association still waiting for clarity from Govt on important practical issues on borders & customs for 1 Nov if there’s no deal. Traders & hauliers won’t all be ready.....

Home Secretary’s pledge to end free movement overnight on October 31 has been abandoned as unworkable but not without causing huge anxiety for EU citizens living here in meantime

Government says there will be more criminal checks on EU citizens arriving after October 31 if there’s no deal - but no one can work out how as we won’t have access to the EU criminal databases

Lawyers told us new settled status scheme was “fast track to Windrush problems” as anyone without Temp Leave to Remain or Settled Status by December 2020, even if they’ve lived here years, will be here illegally & could face immigration enforcement by Home Office, employers, NHS

And we heard of families struggling to complete settled status scheme for elderly relatives living here...

Lots of questions on No Deal preparations for us to put to Home Office..... in 5 weeks time. By which time there will be just 3 weeks left.

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prettybird · 10/09/2019 19:59

I'm sure that I heard one of the Government Front Bench (not sure who it was taking the flak at the time they all blur together - it was either Raab or or Javid or Gove or BJ-Cummings himself) assuring Lady Hermon, who was expressing concern that the hard work already done on the DV Bill would be wasted, that it would be carried over. Confused (Actually think it was Raab as iirc he closed the debate on behalf of the Government)

You don't mean to tell me that he lied ? Hmm

yes, I know, his lips were moving Wink

IrenetheQuaint · 10/09/2019 20:09

"That Robert Peston think-piece can be read in a number of ways. For example, it can be read as yet another, 'underneath all this, Johnson is a good chap. He'll come good in the end. He won't really sell us out to No Deal,' piece. I'm afraid I no longer trust such pieces."

I don't trust such pieces either, but I think that Johnson does realise that leaving with No Deal would be a massive ballache for him.

Ellie56 · 10/09/2019 20:11

Really hope all these lying bastards lose their seats come the GE. Angry

bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 20:15

My work is subject to purdah considerations every time there is an election. Not heard a dicky bird yet.

MockersthefeMANist · 10/09/2019 20:16

There's thousands of tons of unexploded munitions dumped in that channel where the BlowJob Bridge will go, so the insurance quotes should be interesting.

Like a bridge over troubled water I will lie.....

bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 20:19

Reopen some ferry routes would be better than a sodding Bridge.
First thing DH said about a Bridge was "what about the munitions "

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 20:21

More messaging that Johnson will present a deal?

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner