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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Rule of Law

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 14:16

We enter week 2 of what might be considered 'the end game'.

The Conservative Party has made it clear that liberals are not welcome in their ranks. It has become the Brexit Party.

Farage is talking of a pact, though Javid has said no. What would Javid know though, he's only in the Cabinet.

Amber Rudd has resigned. She will run as an independent in an unnamed constituency at the next election. The assumption must therefore be she has been talking to a few people this week about this, though whether that means she is a 'One Nation Tory' independent candidate or simply an independent isn't clear.

Some think that her departure will deal Johnson yet another blow at the polls. Others think as the cabinet members with the worst satisfaction rating amongst tory party members this will be viewed positively by leavers and give Johnson a bounce in the polls.

It been reported that Cummings has overruled Johnson on at least key decisions this week which raises the question of who is in charge and running the show.

Cummings has promised to make us all melt in the coming weeks as he takes a sledge hammer to constitutional convention. He's advised no 10 staff to be 'cool like Fonzies'. A reference to pulp fiction and to happy days. As some have commented if you think about Cummings as some one who has watched too much Tarantino it does make him make a lot more sense.

There are suggestions that Johnson will break the rule of law in refusing to ask for an extension and the No10 have a trick up their sleeve over loopholes. The most obvious thing here being to offer the EU a deal they can't possibly refuse agree too to smear them and to then make it impossible for the EU to agree to an extension which noises out of France seem to suggest anyway.

Tomorrow is going to be interesting...

OP posts:
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ListeningQuietly · 09/09/2019 18:06

WTAF
The Duke of Wellington is no longer a Tory.

AutumnCrow · 09/09/2019 18:07

Keir following Tory intervention: 'I am sure we will have a General Election soon, but not at the cost of a No Deal Brexit which will be so damaging to this country'. Continues with speech.

Excellent.

Peregrina · 09/09/2019 18:07

I don't agree that Parliament is discredited. I see them doing their jobs. If the Government's argument were strong, we would see that.

Basilpots · 09/09/2019 18:08

Irony of Government campaign insisting businesses get ready without letting parliament check if they are ready.

Excellent.

placemats · 09/09/2019 18:09

MPs who adore Johnson:

Fiona Bruce: Anti abortion and anti gay marriage
J Rees Mogg: Same as above but with more money in the bank
Raab: Hasn't a fucking clue, illiterate when it comes to negotiations
Javid: Rabbit caught in the lights and wishes he wasn't there
Patel: LOVING IT!

Anyone else care to add.

Fiona Bruce is Congleton. Rabid in her dislike for the EU.

Basilpots · 09/09/2019 18:11

Tory’s banging on about wanting an election.

Totally irrelevant.

Heads sand ostriches.

PerkingFaintly · 09/09/2019 18:13

Oh, just realised I forgot the link for the Hamilton Dashboard (mentioned this morning).

securingdemocracy.gmfus.org/hamilton-dashboard/
The Hamilton 2.0 dashboard, a project of the Alliance for Securing Democracy at the German Marshall Fund of the United States, provides a summary analysis of the narratives and topics promoted by the Russian government and Russian state-funded media on Twitter, YouTube, broadcast television (RT), and state-sponsored news websites. The purpose of the dashboard is to increase our understanding of the focus and spread of Russian government messaging across various information mediums. The data provided here is intended to be a starting point for in-depth analysis; in short, this dashboard provides the questions, not the answers.

BirdOffTheWire · 09/09/2019 18:13

AutumnCrow - I'm sorry to be stupid, but I can't make sense of your last post about Keir Starmer saying a GE wouldn't be at the cost of a no deal Brexit. What did he mean? (Or am I just confused by double negatives?)

Basilpots · 09/09/2019 18:14

Why are all the Tory’s making totally irrelevant unrelated points ????

flouncyfanny · 09/09/2019 18:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Basilpots · 09/09/2019 18:19

@BirdOffTheWire

The Tory’s keep trying to derail the debate by banging on about wanting a GE.

They’ve got nothing can’t deny or defend the Governments behaviour so try to deflect heat onto the opposition and off themselves.

It’s nonsense.

SistemaAddict · 09/09/2019 18:19

My head hurts. I wish she'd shut up. Her jacket hurts my eyes. And people are twittering in the background.

Peregrina · 09/09/2019 18:20

Keir Starmer and the Rebel Alliance, do not want Johnson to be able to control the timing of a GE to let the country crash out with No Deal. He either wants a Deal on the table for Parliament to vote for, or they want a delay so that they can't vote for a GE in the middle of October and see Johnson delay until afterwards, letting us crash out by default.

There obviously is some politicking going on - if Johnson hasn't crashed out by 31st October or has to ask for an extension, then he's failed. How that will play out is debatable - it might play into his hands, it might not.

SistemaAddict · 09/09/2019 18:20

flouncyfanny I was wondering the same

Apileofballyhoo · 09/09/2019 18:21

Parliament won't vote for a GE until certain No Deal has been stopped. (Though I don't see what they'll do if it's coming up to No Deal on 31st January and we have a parliament full of crazies.) Bird

placemats · 09/09/2019 18:22

Of course it's all the oppositions fault to DENY YOU YOUR VOTE if they don't agree to a general election.

Fuck off!

The opposition is standing CLEAR AND STRONG.

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 18:22

Part of what has just happened in the HoC

Ian Dunt @IanDunt
Grieve: "The great difficulty that e now have in this House is this terrible compelling sense that trust is eroding."

Labour MP Chris Leslie tells Grieve that No.10 is currently briefing reporters that "under no circumstances will No10 staff comply with Grieve's demands regardless of any votes in parliament". Extraordinary.

Grieve says this is the problem. These utterances bear no relation to the functioning of the British constitution.

"It's impossible to know whether they're froth, whether they're Mr Cummings' thoughts, or whether in fact they represent some settled policy view of government in which case this country is facing frankly a revolutionary situation.,"

He warns of an "atmosphere of confrontation" which is "ratcheted up, slowly undermining the institutions which are the only props of legitimacy".

Cox up. Asks what legal right the govt has to demand its staff publish private communications.

Grieve: "These are govt employees. And it is their duty to comply with the civil service code including not using private means of communication to carry out official business."

Cox says Grieve is refining the request only to priate communications which ought to have been carried out as official business. He says this is a blunt instrument which needs refining further.

It risks trespassing on fundamental rights of individuals. Grieve disagrees. "The issue is clearly defined - it relates to the prorogation of parliament".

He points out that Cox's argument is different to No.10's. He;s arguing the govt can;t get the information. But No.10 is saying "it won't even seek to provide it".

Grieve wraps up. He accepts it's difficult and finding a finely tailored instrument would be hard at any time. But "the nature of what has happened and the immediacy of the crisis requires this motion and I commend it to the House".

That was one of the most remarkable statements I've ever seen made to the Commons.

Labour Brexit secretary Keir Starmer up. Like a lawyers' militia armed with knives.

"It's blindingly obvious why we're being closed down. We're being closed down to stop scrutiny and in an attempt to prevent this House expressing a view on no-deal."

OP posts:
OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 09/09/2019 18:22

Why are all the Tory’s making totally irrelevant unrelated points ????
Probably for the same reason as our ploppers on here I'm guessing. That and they've got nothing else

Apileofballyhoo · 09/09/2019 18:22

I don't agree that Parliament is discredited. I see them doing their jobs.

Yes Peregrina. I hope it's not the last Parliament to do it.

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 18:24

Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti
Rebel MP Sir Oliver Letwin says he will back literally any Brexit deal in a vote.

"Many of us who are supporting this motion... wish to see a withdrawal agreement - and have assured the PM that I will personally vote for any agreement that he brings back from the EU Council."

OP posts:
Basilpots · 09/09/2019 18:25

Watching this if you take away the ‘moderate’ Tory’s the ones left really aren’t very good.

flouncyfanny · 09/09/2019 18:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Peregrina · 09/09/2019 18:26

But the Opposition do expect that there will be a GE soon. Probably in November. This will change the composition of the House, although sometimes not much changes, but this time, with so many MPs standing down, change is certain.

Whether the Johnson Tories and the Farage Brexiters get a majority is very debatable. What is almost certain is that the Tories will get wiped out in Scotland.

But where are the Leavers to lecture us about Democracy? Perhaps they are glued to the Parliament channel.

BirdOffTheWire · 09/09/2019 18:26

Thanks, all, for your explanations. I am clearly out of it, as I thought there was definitely not going to be a GE unless and until it was legally rubberstamped that there would NOT be a no-deal Brexit. And I thought that had been done? (Forgive my Alzheimer's Lite, which for some reason has got so much worse these past few months. Keeping up with covfeve.)

Apileofballyhoo · 09/09/2019 18:27

I was watching history there, Red, with that speech from Grieve. I wish they would all spell it out more, in simpler language, with catchy sound bites.