Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: "He's in trouble". No he's not.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2019 00:48

All day I've seen nothing but comments and tweets about he Johnson is in trouble and he's losing it.

They are wrong. He's far from done.

Take a step through the Looking Glass and the world looks different.

Those tweeting and reporting all care about events and are following closely. They are unrepresentative of the population as a whole who don't give two shiny shits.

And so we have the Trump dynamic.

The Liberal elite of broadcasters and journalists who are only seeing through the lens of their own judgement, not from the repackaged marketing.

Instead they are unwittingly publishing the images and slogans in the format Johnson wants and enter the minds of the public as planned.

The media are out of step with perceptions. And that's worrying. They don't see what's coming.

Johnson will have an election at some point. With the Tory party cleansed of moderates it is the Brexit Party one way or another, whether it be by takeover or coalition. And its riding high in the polling.

Even though even his brother has abandoned him, the future looks positive for Johnson as his opponents have a complete lack of self awareness and no understanding of the opposition they are taking on; they are campaigning in a way that plays into the hands of Johnson.

Despite his lack of majority and apparently absence of plan or speech notes, the biggest mistake you can make now is to write off Johnson.

You do so at your own peril.

Pay close attention to how authoritarians work and what's already happened in the US. We are on course to repeat it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Basilpots · 06/09/2019 10:06

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest a majority of British voters will support a party pushing for a no-deal Brexit.

That’s the point they don’t have to.

If the BXP collides in the right constituencies they can harvest enough Votes from the Labour Party to not win a seat themselves but to let a Tory in. Not saying it’s easy but it’s doable. Farage has been out and about in his bus targeting these areas for weeks now.

For every Putney there I see a seat here in the Midlands or North that will replace it.

DarkAtEndOfUK · 06/09/2019 10:06

Johnson's target demographic is likely to be highly misogynistic too. More than one of us wondered if part of his lunge for leadership was not believing what he was told by a woman (May). Women die from men's anger all the time, and we're seeing the return of acceptance and normalization of that.

Basilpots · 06/09/2019 10:10

@Socksontheradiator Yes and TM’s ex press secretary on the Guardian yesterday.

Of course I could just be crediting them with too much cunning.

I shall listen with interest who else pops up.

prettybird · 06/09/2019 10:11

is the “dead in a ditch” a common figure of speech in English?

No it's not Cherin Confused - which is why it won't be off the cuff and will have been carefully calibrated for maximum impact Hmm A bit like his buses make believe "hobby" designed to get the £350 million bus lie off the Googl searches Hmm

LonelyTiredandLow · 06/09/2019 10:12

Trying to keep up!
The days of big business in flagrant government collusion are going to be over. @giraffe why would you think us having US trade increased would mean this? It makes no sense.

I see Cummings as a Bannon figure but without the clear background in xenophobia and overt machoism (although that's merely because he doesn't explicitly write about it more than his ideology and actions). It will indeed be interesting to see how long he lasts. Who would replace him on this circus though?

I'm going to message LD's today and talk about need for GNU and WA. It will be interesting to see their response.

LonelyTiredandLow · 06/09/2019 10:14

re dead in a ditch - wasn't that part of the Guppy exchange? Is this to skew the search algorithms again?

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 06/09/2019 10:15

This is beginning to do the rounds on Twitter, with the question being does anyone know where the ditch will be? Grin

Westminstenders: "He's in trouble". No he's not.
dontcallmelen · 06/09/2019 10:15

PMK, thank you.

DGRossetti · 06/09/2019 10:15

Johnson's target demographic is likely to be highly misogynistic too.

More than one poster here picked up how he seemed to have trouble respecting women in debates ... maybe that's a deliberate slip of the mask, as a "nod'n'wink" to the old guard "womans place is in the home" support that is still too prevalent.

It should be clear that one deep factor in Brexit is a desire to reverse all and any advancements in womens rights of the past 150 years (not just the 70s).

I can guarantee you will be able to find a non trivial element in the electorate who want the vote removed, and for women to be the property of men, and not be able to own property themselves.

That would be for starters ...

When I look at all the men pushing for Brexit, I see people who would happily turn to a friends and say "Could you keep your wife under control ?" if she gets too above her station.

Oh, and "reasonable chastisement" - obviously if children can be beaten, women should too.

I defy anyone to suggest there's no one with those views in the UK today. And those that are, will be banner-waving Brexiteers.

DarkAtEndOfUK · 06/09/2019 10:15

"Dead in a ditch" is a figure of speech in English, certainly. I'm not sure how common it is but he hardly invented it. DGR, that's really interesting about Anglo-Saxon inclusions. I have occasionally wondered in a meandering fashion how much of England's class system goes back to 1066!

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 06/09/2019 10:16

dg love that picture!

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2019 10:17

Theo Usherwood@theousherwood
Three texts in Ferrari's inbox:

Mike: “Boris's gone way up in my estimation, sticking up for the people.”

Alan: “Major’s speech is laughable. They didn’t listen, they’ve ridden roughshod over the public for years.”

Lynn on Jo Johnson: "If you can’t be loyal then shut up."

OP posts:
DarkAtEndOfUK · 06/09/2019 10:18

Sex was a factor in the 2016 vote. Women were more likely to vote for Brexit than men: in some classes, by quite a bit too.

DGRossetti · 06/09/2019 10:19

I have occasionally wondered in a meandering fashion how much of England's class system goes back to 1066!

You don't really need to go too far. 90% of the land William the bastard dished out after Hastings is still in the same families.

The Norman feudal system has survived several civil wars, the creation of the United Kingdom, the Napoleonic wars, and 2 world wars pretty much unscathed.

Now you know why foreign dictators are so in thrall to the English school system.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 06/09/2019 10:20

Just seen the high court challenge on prorogation has failed.
Suspected it would like the Scottish case, but both have been important in unveiling things.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2019 10:20

Jim Pickard@pickardje
The Farce Awakens

Sorry had to share this.

Someone out there has too much time

Westminstenders: "He's in trouble". No he's not.
OP posts:
prettybird · 06/09/2019 10:21

"Dead in a ditch" is not an English expression I've ever come across and I'm pretty well read and articulate Wink - as are my friends and acquaintances (explains why I live in a Remain bubble Wink)

Maybe it's just not common in Scotland? Confused We do after all, speak a better version of English Grin < ducks > Wink

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2019 10:22

As I said yesterday

Michael Deacon @michaelpdeacon
Democracy latest

Voter suppression Tory Style.

Westminstenders: "He's in trouble". No he's not.
OP posts:
Cwenthryth · 06/09/2019 10:22

I’ve got a bit of time on buses/trains today so I’ve decided to download the “Brexit: An Uncivil War” C4/HBO film as I didn’t watch it when it came out earlier in the year. Benedict Cumberbatch plays Dominic Cummings.

Is it just going to put me off Cumberbatch for life? How truthful do we think the film is?

DGRossetti · 06/09/2019 10:22

Sex was a factor in the 2016 vote. Women were more likely to vote for Brexit than men: in some classes, by quite a bit too

As long as you can persuade people it's someone else that will suffer, it's amazing how extreme you can get.

No matter how successful a political message of "you will be better off" may be, it can be easily eclipsed by ...and they'll be worse off. As the rather unseemly slavering over people being deported, losing jobs, houses, healthcare and (in some cases) lives shows.

But none of this is new. It's all be documented for decades. Nearly a century in fact.

DarkAtEndOfUK · 06/09/2019 10:23

I'm Northerner by birth, Mercian by upbringing, and I've heard it before.

usuallydormant · 06/09/2019 10:23

Thanks so much to Red and BCF in particular for maintaining these threads and keeping cool, analytical heads. As an -obsessed- interested outsider I have deleted many angry posts I wanted to make, as they are just not useful and this thread's success is probably thanks to so many posters being able to keep the lines of communication open . Thanks for being great role models in moderation Smile.

On Johnson's ditch comment, this is how it looks to others:

Westminstenders: "He's in trouble". No he's not.
DGRossetti · 06/09/2019 10:24

I'm Northerner by birth, Mercian by upbringing, and I've heard it before.

So not properly English then Grin ...

Cwenthryth · 06/09/2019 10:26

“Dead in a ditch” is something my Mum would have said to guilt trip me when I was a wayward teen and didn’t come home on time (in the days before mobile phones).

“I didn’t know where you were, you could have been dead in a ditch somewhere!”

I guess the idea being it’s the worst case scenario of all the various possibilities (ie the bus was late/I’d lost my emergency 10p for payphones).

DarkAtEndOfUK · 06/09/2019 10:27

Ooh... I will chop and crush some melon in your honour for that. Shock Smile

Swipe left for the next trending thread