Dear Brussels...

[Miljah]

Of course I know the EU's equivalent of Whitehall scrutinise what we say and do- possibly even MN!

But if you had their ear, what would you say?

I do understand that there is no complete, overriding consensus within the EU 'Parliament'!

But imagine you are addressing the EU MEPs.

What would you like to feel they should know?

@MysteryTripAgain - EU can't prevent any of the 28 members from leaving the EU.

Again, what has that got to do with anything? The EU cannot, and is not attempting to, prevent the UK leaving the EU.

The UK started this process by introducing red lines that would result in breaking the GFA. The EU made a major concession with the backstop to support Ireland in their desire to ensure that brexit would not result in the GFA being broken. The EU will not agree to a deal that results in an international peace treaty, to which one of their members is a party, being broken.

I can't see the point of engaging with anymore mystery, in fact I usually skip over your posts because they are so long winded and nonsensical. I think it is utterly disgusting though that you can be so flippant about the return of violence and it's impact on people and services. You have really shown your true colours.

whyamI8 and Viola* I've come to suspect that baiting posters is that person's raison d'être.

S/he has made awful remarks on a few threads.

I'm not going to engage any more..... not because I agree with any point they've made, but because there is a certain type of person who will stoop to using any language /threats in order to "win" the argument.
I Am Not Interested

Therefore, if they create a wishy washy border with Ireland, they must do the same for everyone else

Same applies to EU. If they relax the border regulations for Ireland they will have to do the same in Eastern Europe.

With its red lines, the UK is deliberately taking action that contravenes the GFA

UK is leaving EU under EU law. GFA does not form part of EU law as confirmed by yourself and Bellini. Article 50, which was accepted by all EU members, make no reference to GFA. If you read through the Article 50 briefing notes prepared by EU you will see there is no recourse to any law other than EU law.

If Brexit results in my death, then I will make the effort to return from the dead and post on MN with the same username;

“Well Brexit did not work for me, but the other leave voters are happy”

You really are having fun with your nonsense today.

The EU will not agree to a deal that results in an international peace treaty, to which one of their members is a party, being broken

Can you provide a link or a document for that statement? It goes against the Article 50 guidelines that state Article 50 has no recourse to international law, but is restricted to EU law.

@MysteryTripAgain - Same applies to EU. If they relax the border regulations for Ireland they will have to do the same in Eastern Europe.

Nope. It's an evolving process that will be adjusted as necessary.

UK is leaving EU under EU law. GFA does not form part of EU law as confirmed by yourself and Bellini. Article 50, which was accepted by all EU members, make no reference to GFA. If you read through the Article 50 briefing notes prepared by EU you will see there is no recourse to any law other than EU law.

Again, that is completely irrelevant. The UK has set in train a process that will result in breaking an international peace treaty. It doesn't matter whether they are doing this via A50 or by invading another country. There is recourse under international law that has nothing to do with the EU or A50.

Interesting how it’s totally fine for the UK to have “red lines” (which no one voted for and are ideologies of the furthest right of the Tory party) but not the EU (to uphold an international peace treaty)

Can you provide a link or a document for that statement? It goes against the Article 50 guidelines that state Article 50 has no recourse to international law, but is restricted to EU law.

No it doesn't. A50 states that if there is no agreement, then the country leaves with no deal. The UK has set their red lines, the EU has set their red lines.

The GFA is a completely separate issue that falls under international law. If the UK takes a course of action that breaks it, they are culpable under international law. The UK came up with red lines that meant they would break the GFA. The EU offered them an option that would allow them to keep their red lines whilst also protecting the GFA. The UK rejected that option and so are the ones that are breaking the GFA.

A50 states that if there is no agreement, then the country leaves with no deal

Exactly. No reference to GFA at all.

The GFA is a completely separate issue that falls under international law

Which Article 50 excludes

The UK came up with red lines that meant they would break the GFA

Where in GFA does it reference Article 50 and how deals have to be made?

When Ireland installs an EU border how is that not Ireland breaking the GFA?

My eyes are rolling so hard, Im looking behind me at this stage....

@MysteryTripAgain.

Based on your last post, you're either extremely stupid or being completely disingenuous, pretending that you can't understand how both international law and EU law can both apply in different ways.

I very much doubt anyone could be that stupid so I'm assuming disingenuousness.

@whyamidoingthis

GFA lapses in a no deal under the Vienna convention. Hence nobody in the EU or UK has mentioned international law.

“Lapses”
Interesting

@MysteryTripAgain - GFA lapses in a no deal under the Vienna convention. Hence nobody in the EU or UK has mentioned international law.

No it doesn't. The Vienna convention, in article 62, refers to circumstances making it impossible to comply, not wilful contravention. If the parties to a treaty had contemplated for the occurrence of the changed circumstances (i.e. decided to brexit in a manner that contravened the GFA), the doctrine does not apply and the provision remains in effect. This clause relates to changed circumstances only if they had never been contemplated by the parties. The UK chose to introduce red lines that would contravene the GFA. Therefore, the get out of jail free card is invalid.

@HerSymphonyAndSong - I think the word you are looking for is bullshit, rather than interesting.

You are more patient than me whyamidoingthis - as that has already been explained to Mystery but he or she just ignores inconvenient facts But at least you make sure that he or she doesn't get away with repeating lies mistruths

If people like him or her are being paid by the word, they must be costing a wasted fortune - especially as I for one (and I'm sure I'm not the only one ) now just skim over the posts and ignore them as piffle.

This clause relates to changed circumstances only if they had never been contemplated by the parties

GFA passed in 1998

Article 50 was passed in 2009

So by definition when GFA was signed in 1998 neither party was able to contemplate that Article 50, which allows a no deal departure from the EU, was going to happen 11 years later.

This is why the EU have never referred to international law during the Brexit process. If UKs red lines are illegal, why did EU not raise that at the time?

@MysteryTripAgain - If Brexit results in my death, then I will make the effort to return from the dead and post on MN with the same username; “Well Brexit did not work for me, but the other leave voters are happy”

Your disregard for, and trivialisation of, victims of the troubles is actually shocking.

@MysteryTripAgain - So by definition when GFA was signed in 1998 neither party was able to contemplate that Article 50, which allows a no deal departure from the EU, was going to happen 11 years later.

Again, nonsense. The changed circumstances is the introduction of the red lines which requires a brexit that contravenes the GFA. A50 does not require a member to leave.

This is why the EU have never referred to international law during the Brexit process.

The EU cannot take legal action wrt the GFA. Ireland can. However, all efforts are being made by the EU to agree a deal.

@prettybird - You are more patient than me whyamidoingthis grin - as that has already been explained to Mystery but he or she just ignores inconvenient facts hmm

Thank you. I do think it's important that people who dip in and out don't fall the nonsense being spouted.

@MysteryTripAgain - victims of the troubles

If you really can't see what was wrong with your post, given it was a follow on to your statement that someone not affected by violence might consider brexit to be worth it but someone who was affected might not consider it to be worth it, I would really wonder about your moral compass.

And if you don't know what the troubles are, you have no business posting anything about NI.

A50 does not require a member to leave

Article 50 is the prescribed procedure to leave. It does not describe circumstances that force the member who has served notice of their wish to leave to cancel and not leave.

The changed circumstances is the introduction of the red lines

How can something that never previously existed be changed? No mention of red lines in Article 50 or the Good Friday Agreement.