Westminstenders: Drain The Swamp

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson lost his first vote by 27.

The Commons take control again, and Johnson is now, with his majority gone, is seeking an election.

Whilst the feeling might be one of victory there is a definite sting in the tail.

Johnson has purged the party of 'trouble makers', meaning any replacements after an election are hard liners. And they will be in safe seats. Possibly many of which will be careerists parachuted in.

The party has split. The civil war is over.

Parliament has just lost some of its very best minds in the process. That bodes ill for us all in the long term. The polarisation has just jacked up a level. The centre has fallen even more.

There are no more moderates.

Polling suggests that Johnson won't be blamed for any of this and that's significant.

Take note of this tweet

Douglas Carswell @Douglascarswell
Boris Vs the political Parasites. Guess who wins across suburban Britain?

The optics are not about what you or I are seeing. Nor about what any of the politicial pundits are seeing.

The Democrats and the Media failed to see Trump coming... And this is what now concerns me. His optics are not bad with his core and targets.

Will Johnson be able to have his election?

If yes, I fear the polls look good for Johnson. People want 'Brexit over with' and don't want another extension. They may or may not understand the ramifications of that.

If no, then what? Johnson can do anything with his numbers. Does that mean potentially two governments and the Queen stuck in the middle? Or does he limp on, with no intention of doing anything but take us over the cliff by counting down the clock?

Or something else?

The Brexit Party and Conservatives now seem to have formally united one way or another. They have aligned with current politics alike the divided Opposition parties.

Tonight the penny might have dropped with a few Labour MPs too. They want May's deal to return. Its the only deal there is, in the absence of a Johnson plan and a Labour / Opposition plan. Too little too late...

This isn't going away as an issue either. Stoking up anger against the rebel alliance is a long term project for the fascist right.

Is tonight’s result a victory? Yes, but my fear is its potential to be a Pyrrhic Victory.

The battle today may have been won, but Johnson still looks set to win...

It's going to be another blood bath tomorrow

Yes. Still the fundamental incompatibility of referendum vs parliament. Nothing's changed about that.

PMK. Thanks.
"fundamental incompatibility of referendum vs parliament"... as whipped up by the media and populists.

Pfft

Cheeky pmk for tomorrow.

well - that last thread lasted ... hours.
Thanks for the new one Red

Grim, sobering reading RTB and spot on

PMK

PMK and thanks for the thread Red.
Got to try to sleep here to - 1st day back at school tomorrow for dd!
Sad Rory is off but wise I feel.

Do we think any of the rebels might defect to other parties?

Last message on other thread says Rory NOT stepping down. There are too many mixed messages coming out tonight - best wait until dust clears a little tomorrow.

Some of the Tory rebels are still saying they are tories through and through.

Pmk

As whipped up by the media? What do you mean? We've just spent three years watching attempts to bodge a way out of the incompatibility havent we?

Weary PMK

Do you think that Cummings wants GE so if a hung gov then he can do a deal with the Brexit party? He must know that the tories will lose seats to them. BJ can then crash out with no deal with a clear conscience and blame the brexit party when it goes tits up.

@bbclaurak
One big appointment coming today - Dominic Cummings expected to be senior advisor to the new PM - Vote Leave chief moving into govt - huge brain and experienced in govt, and will be applauded by Brexiteers - highly controversial too

Them brexisty men have 'huge brains' apparently.

I heard other stuff about their impotence and sperm counts but.......

Thanks red

Thanks, red 💐

That's what I posted on the old thread, before seeing this:
after a GE all / almost all Tory rebels will be gone and the Tory party will have been purged (of reason)

That is why imo Corbyn should refuse a GE until No Deal has been stopped
afaik, radical:
that can only be via the Flint-Kinnock proposal to bring back the WA - and hope this time that Remainers will vote for it

I expect once again that hardcore Remainers like Soubry will oppose it

BUT
Revoke is dead unless Corbyn wins the GE and then eventually gives a PV
Very unlikely to happen
It'll almost certainly be BJ with a working majority and then he has the mandate - and the MPs - for No Deal
No Tory rebels left to stop him, or the hard right deconstruction of the UK afterwards
Noone to stop the destruction of the NHS, workers rights, consumer rights, food standards, environmental controls ....

Now should all be about avoiding No Deal
However, even though about 500 MPs are opposed to No Deal,
they will probably still insist on holding out for their favourite solutions, Revoke or Norway++ or ....
none of which command a majority in the HoC

They still only agree on what they don't want, not what they do want

Ta red

The WA might have a majority now
The Flint-Kinnock group now pushing it mostly voted against, iirc

More MPs realise there is no unicorn, whether a Remain or Leave one

Currently the WA is the only existing option other than No Deal

Otherwise, we are pinning all our hopes on Corbyn winning the GE

I've said it before:

TMs WA will pass if its put forward again.

There is no majority in the HoC for Revoke

Red, hope you sleep well.

Surely it comes back to whatever that amendment was from ages and ages ago (cooper/boles?) Pass the W.A on the condition of giving a P.V. If leave wins again - W.A it is. If Remain wins - revoke.

As Labour's position is that they support a P.V now even in the event of them being allowed to negotiate their own deal then this should not cause them any problems. The lib dems/ SNP/ Greens/ Plaid/ Anna Soubry's lot want a P.V - so it ticks their box (they have to accept a leave option on the ballot so refusing this amendment would be sheer hypocrisy) and the tory rebels like Rory might not want a P.V but it gets the W.A through and prevents no deal so they'd be mad to block it.

If they have the numbers to take control of the house and if they have the numbers to block no deal tomorrow - then they should have the numbers to pass that amendment this time around, unless they all just play silly buggers

PMK...what a night

pretzels They only had the numbers today because the Lexiters were promised the bill tomorrow would not have a PV
There are 20-30 Lexiters who would vote against anything with a PV