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Brexit

Westminstenders: It's a trap!

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/09/2019 02:48

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the war gaming that Cummings has undertaken involved deliberately provoking the split in the Conservatives, uniting the Opposition and triggering a GE in October - before B-Day.

If you are wise then I think Peregina (and BCF) have it spot on.

The optics are all for creating a positive circumstance for Johnson and a GE. Everything is about a GE. There is nothing about either no deal or a deal coming from government presently. Its always stank of being a trap but it not being quite clear what they were up to.

I think it's starting to become clearer.

Timing is everything and perception is essential and that's always been obvious. Johnson has to be seen as tough and hard line.

May's problems all stemmed from the party civil war and lack of majority. Realistically to survive Johnson has to solve this somehow. A GE gives him the opportunity to get rid of troublemakers and purify the party but he can only do so with Brexit Party supporters. Or a coalition with the Brexit Party as a last resort.

His strategy all along has been about demonising and laying the blame. And it's quite clear there is deliberate incitement going on.

Johnson HAS to be challenged for it to work though. Either by Labour going for a GE or by a VoNC sooner rather than later so a GE can fall mid Oct.

If this doesn't happen Johnson runs into problems and has to seriously consider abusing to powers of the executive to do anything. I suspect he'd try this and we'd have a constitutional crisis but this is plan B rather than plan A.

Johnson wants to be in control of the timetable without being seen to do it himself.

That points to an earlier election he has denied he wants. And rumours are now circling for 14th October election that Cummings wants to call next week - the minor detail here being the mechanics a of the FTPA. Johnson can't just call a GE without repealing the act (needs a majority to do so which he doesn't have), complying with the act (2/3rds of the House vote for it which requires Labour support) or a VoNC and he then calls a GE.

A 1st Nov GE requires him to drive us over the cliff, which is currently technically unlawful and provokes no deal the government isn't prepared for. Its extremely high risk as a strategy. It might well still be in play, but its a last resort I suspect.

A VoNC and the temptation to form an alternative government is high risk strategy as despite saying Johnson would refuse to resign, he could well just be saying this to provoke the strategy.

Remember: Propaganda is always about playing to emotional behaviour to illicit the 'right' behaviour.

There is this mentally amongst some remain quarters that only leavers are 'stupid enough' to fall for this. And there is this idea that everything that's going on now is to whip up leave feeling.

Is that true? Who is taking to the streets?

I do suspect that enough hard-line Remainers will be so angry that they act recklessly with emotions rather than rational and potentially fall for it. That's the trick. Get people emotional and you can control their behaviour. That's what Cummings did for the referendum. Except he manipulated Leave voters. He's trying to do the reverse with Remain voters now. So the question is to what ends and it does seem to come back to what Peregina says above. And whether Remainers can see it and respond to it, or become so caught up with the outrage.

Of course if the public are wound up enough and their representatives on the remain side don't play ball, then they become disillusioned and this also has an effect on voter moral (less likely to turnout). So it could be win win strategy anyway, unless this danger isn't spotted and the opposition fail to call it out and defuse it. All their messages so far are not doing so. Win Win to Cummings.

I think there are definitely two plans in action here. A preferred one and a less preferred one. Strikingly for all this game theory talk, it does look like it's about Johnson and Cummings retaining control of the narrative and the timings for a GE. Brexit itself is something of an irrelevance to this. It's not what they are trying to achieve though. Johnsons priority is to stay in power, not manage Brexit responsibly though and that's the key to understanding it all, whereas Dealers and Remainers priority is simply about preventing no deal. Johnson ultimately doesn't care about this, if he can stay PM.

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JudgeJudyismyinspiration · 02/09/2019 17:37

PM to make a statement at 6pm this evening.

I guess we are going to find out very soon.
There is an awful lot of MPS and ministers in No10 thats all I am saying. Looks like something very big is going to happen this evening.

prettybird · 02/09/2019 17:38

This was written back in June by the Institute for Government outlining the preparations that other countries had already undertaken in No Deal preparations

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/other-eu-countries-preparations-no-deal

Many of the Irish MNers have described the road shows and grants that have been in place/happening for months Smile

Ditto with Belgium and Germany Grin

IDontBelieveYou · 02/09/2019 17:39

I feel sick.

TokyoSushi · 02/09/2019 17:40

I'm not sure anything very big can happen this evening can it? He can't just call an election by himself?

Is he just going to say 'if you all carry on, I'm not going to be able to get a deal, so stop it.' Or some such shite?

Myriade · 02/09/2019 17:41

A really interesting read from Ivan Rogers

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/ivan-rogers-the-realities-of-a-no-deal-brexit/?fbclid=IwAR1nX2hMJ5e9Yf5VxOtxqDPzgB9dCaqB0DrT9ewx2AkHBfKaU0QWTXCXgAs#
The reality if No Deal Brexit.

DGRossetti · 02/09/2019 17:41

Treeza was fond of giving addresses outside no.10 too, as I recall.

TokyoSushi · 02/09/2019 17:44

That's right DG, and they were mostly pointless and quite frankly odd! Lets see if this one is any different!

OublietteBravo · 02/09/2019 17:46

Have we considered what would happen if the GE was scheduled for 31 October? Which would mean that the polls would close before Brexit, but the result would only be known after Brexit. Because I’m concerned BJ might promise a GE before Brexit and go for this option...

RedToothBrush · 02/09/2019 17:47

I am...

checks script

Dominic Cummings.

double checks

Oh shit nope I'm not a baldy tosser.

Thank goodness.

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PostNotInHaste · 02/09/2019 17:48

I think the outside Downing Street things are to get a decent selection of photos to chose from for their biographies . The BBC says it is to outline the maps choices so I guess he is setting the stage for his Parliament v The People election.

RedToothBrush · 02/09/2019 17:49

mumbles about glad I'm not going to be able to watch Little Trump as I'm a buswanker with no food in the fridge

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ClashCityRocker · 02/09/2019 17:52

He can't just call a snap election though can he?

RedToothBrush · 02/09/2019 17:52

Christopher Hope@christopherhope
BREAKING MPs are planning to take control of the House of Commons chamber at 3pm on Wednesday and try to stop a no-deal Brexit.

The rebel Bill says the government must by 19 October 2019:

1) Reach a deal with the EU, and table a motion for Parliament to approve this deal – which is then approved

or

2) Table a motion for Parliament to approve an exit without a deal – which is then approved.

If the Government has not met one of these conditions by 19th October 2019, then it must write to the EU seeking an extension, until 31st January 2020.

If either of these conditions are met after the letter is sent, then the government can withdraw or amend the letter.

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CrunchyCarrot · 02/09/2019 17:53

Is Johnson about to call a GE?!? I guess that would head off the opposition's plans? Would that mean Parliament is instantly dissolved?

Belindabelle · 02/09/2019 17:55

I am supposed to be doing no alcohol for September. This is not a good week to be on the wagon.

ClashCityRocker · 02/09/2019 17:57

Guardian say he won't be announcing snap election.

Grinchly · 02/09/2019 17:57

Maybe he will be introducing the First Puppy to the nation.

WaterSheep · 02/09/2019 17:57

So announcement at 6pm. He's just got a new dog, what are the odd of this announcement being him taking Peternity leave...

OublietteBravo · 02/09/2019 17:58

Gosh - he really does look like a younger version of Trump in the BBC picture, doesn’t he?

Westminstenders: It's a trap!
OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 02/09/2019 17:58

Beth Rigby at Sky says this is a rally to the Tory remainers to get in line with him.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/09/2019 17:58

I can't watch either as I'm a train wanker who's off to hunt down bread flour and yeast shortly.

woman19 · 02/09/2019 17:59

He's shorter fatter and balder.

chomalungma · 02/09/2019 17:59

s Johnson about to call a GE

Doesn't the Fixed Term Act kind of complicate that?

Still - we all know that the law is a minor inconvenience for mini-Trump.

Grinchly · 02/09/2019 17:59

Thé announcer on PM today nearly said he and Carrie had given birth to a new puppy, and caught himself just in time.

NoWordForFluffy · 02/09/2019 18:00

Remainers simply won't get on board with no deal though. Or, not ones who've really thought it through.

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