Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!

[RedToothBrush]

It's quite remarkable to watch the British press atm.

It's like it doesn't understand English. Well only if its English spoken by foreigners.

Merkel made the observation that the UK had spent two years looking at the Irish border but had failed to come up with a workable solution, and now Johnson has waltzed in and made statements about how the backstop must go, and only has 30 days in which this can be achieved.

The British press writes this up as Merkel giving the UK a deadline to come up with a new solution.

Which is nonsense. The UK have a deadline to save itself, from itself and that's 31st October. This is a self imposed deadline.

Meanwhile comes out with the Brexiteer smack down that he didn't think the UK wS leaving the EU to regain its sovereignty only to become a vassalage or junior partner to the US.

Both these ideas being the result of leaving the EU have long been key issues. From before the ref. Both have been the UK's to solve in order to get the terms the UK wants from a deal.

The referendum was about choosing to align with the EU or to ditch that and rights and align closely with the US. Then Trump happened and the sell on this got harder, but still essentially the same. And it continues.

And then there was the Irish border. The magic solution to Brexit that doesn't break the GFA. I personally think there isn't one as long as the DUP have their red lines about the Irish sea.

So here we are. More than 3 years after the ref.

Leavers still have no plan. Apart for charge headlong over the cliff. Remains still have their heads wedged up their own backsides and also, after spending months criticising every one else on social media anyway who makes a stand again this bull shit.

Yet the newspapers fail to report what Merkel said or why the UK has this issue in the first place. Its an ongoing exercise in national delusion and self denial.

PostNotInHaste, add 'investigated procedures to close Parliament down until after Brexit'.

Yay, democracy.

Ken Clarke must be at the end of his Parliamentary career now. Grieve has earned the ire of the right wing infiltrators so is finished in his current seat. Maybe somewhere there is a seat which wants to put up a Remainer candidate? Ditto for a few others. I can't really see a way out of this impasse.

However, I don't think it's up to Johnson to dictate that MPs should deliver Brexit just because he wants to make his name doing so. They still have their consciences and duties to consider, and if they think Brexit is wrong, they are right to say so, or to attempt to mitigate the results of Brexit.

Johnson really needs a Thatcher/Blair style majority to start throwing his weight about.

I should read back before posting, awful spelling in bits. Is the investigating shutting down Parliament just after telling MPs they don’t have say over No deal?

The tories want to win the next election, they won't do that shutting down parliament and a no-deal.

What is a Boris stop?

He won't want to be the one who is blamed for trashing the country, and although he will do his level best to blame the EU, he can't guarantee that he will convince the general public. (After all, at the last election with the huge anti-Corbyn propaganda being churned out, Corbyn did better than we had been led to believe he would. May's dismal electoral skills helped.)

Will he be bothered about splitting the Tory party? I doubt it.

FrankGrimes I'm a centrist Remainer - I'm always absolutely at the centre crosshairs in those 3D voting plots
and I would certainly support Corbyn as an interim PM to stop No Deal

That's even though I despise his tolerance for anti-semitism, misogyny, TRAs within Labour
No Deal is an emergency situation, element's "hair on fire", so I prioritise that above all else
No Deal could create the opportunity for much harder rightwing policies than we have seen so far.

Some other centrists on here have said the same.

Those Remainers who oppose him seem to be those who won't accept a soft Brexit, even if this means crashing out with No Deal
Corbyn is a Lexiter, hence I suspect why they don't trust him

imo, the country is split down the middle re Leave vs Remain and we have to bring most of the country together again
Neither No Deal nor a Revoke via an HoC / legal trick will do that

There is no majority for Revoke - or for No Deal - either in the country or in the HoC

Corbyn's plan is to negotiate a much softer Brexit and then have a PV on it
It is a sign of how far politics have deteriorated when Corbyn actually sounds the voice of reason with that

Good news article from Sky on Ch4

Shame our national broadcaster is still so differential.

I'm not sure about the sequence of events. www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/24/johnson-seeks-legal-advice-parliament-closure

He asked for legal advice about a 5 week closure.

We were talking hypothetically Johnson possibly paving the way to bring back some kind of agreement loosely based on the WA but weren’t sure what we were thinking he would do about the back stop. We thought he might come up a with a new back stop, not called a back stop but is one really. DH then helpfully (!) suggested the Boris Stop as he seems keen on naming things after himself.

Sorry JustAnotherPoster I was mistaken . The length of time that opinion polls have consistently shown that the majority of UK voters want to Remain in the EU is two years (since August 2017)

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

EXCLUSIVE: I understand cross-party MPs will gather for a symbolic meeting at Church House in Westminster tomorrow, signing a declaration opposing any suspension of parliament and promising to form alternative Commons if so. Attendance expected from all opposition party leaders.

Is an alternative Commons not a bit civil war-ry?

BJ knows that a majority of only 1 - and that only with the DUP - is unlikely to survive many months
So he either lets Corbyn choose the next GE date, or he chooses it himself

Private Tory polls will have told him how many votes Farage is likely to gain from the Tories in a GE after an extension
and the ERG would be after his blood too.
So he really, really doesn't want to extend - it wouldn't improve the UK's position wrt the EU, anyway.

His best chance - such as it is - of winning a GE is to hold it right after No Deal, before the more damaging effects are noticeable
If he gets a working majority, he won't care if that means presiding over an economy going over the cliff
There's plenty of money in that, to keep the party hedge-fundeds happy

Said chance of Deal a million to one

It was “chance of No Deal is a million to one”

Corbyn's on it for once actually. Looks like such an attempt wouldn't get very far. What's injunctive relief? Is it basically courts allowing parliament to ignore the executive? That would be a nightmare. Imagine what Johnson and media would make with that.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/26/brexit-shutting-down-parliament-gravest-abuse-of-power-in-living-memory-legal-advice

x-post with Apile - yes, that sounds like a civil war. Cold to start with.

Let's face it, we're half way there. We need discussion, negotiation and compromise with good faith among reasoned participants to stop it. What we've got is politicians, media and us Brits.

He asked for legal advice about a 5 week closure

We never know who asks for the Yougov questions to be asked but there were quite a few questions about how strongly opposed you are to suspending parliament.

FFS this is a coup.

Well, if Parliament is suspended to force through No Deal, then an alternative Parliament is a reasonable response
However, it is unclear if that alternative would have any power whatsoever, or just be a symbol of protest

More likely, BJ will just run out the time to No Deal
His opponents don't seem able to organise effective opposition to prevent this

Time to read up on the civil war.

@ContinuityError, yes you’re right, on 26th June. Thanks.

FFS this is a coup.

Yes. jasjas, tbh I'm not sure how much Johnson is worrying about winning a general election. Perhaps his next step will be to get legal advice on ways of delaying general elections.

Agree with BCF 21:50.
DGR’s ref to Oxford upthread was a Civil War one - I think - but reversed - it was the King who formed the Oxford Parliament.

Johnson is a puppet of Cummings.

Please think about that prorogation threat. It is easy to forget it or think it will never happen.

We may be at end of days here. But I doubt it.

Surely DEMOCRACY will win out?

Something this has all highlighted is the power and total lack of responsibility of the media.

They say deregulation in finance markets caused the 2008 financial crisis.

Deregulation and lack of any standards for information could be viewed as the cause of our political crisis.

We urgently need teeth back in the BBC as a public sector standard for news and information provision, and an end to media as the sensationalist troublemaker it is. To bring back the link between news and information, bring back the social role of media and remind all why newspapers got started in those Victorian coffee houses. I'm not sure how to achieve that while keeping it free, but it's what we need.

It's a bit less scary to look at than Johnson's shenanigans!

His best chance - such as it is - of winning a GE is to hold it right after No Deal, before the more damaging effects are noticeable

As I keep saying, I hope Parliament have the sense this time to say that now is not time for an Election. Force Johnson to own his own shit!

Is Johnson goading MPs to a VONC to trigger a GE (so they can be blamed for any delay) or are his ever more shocking statements designed to play to leavers? What do you think or both? While it is tempting to want BJ to shoulder the consequences of a no deal, no deal is just too damaging. As has been said on here already, those pushing for a no deal either stand to gain personally from it or have been misled. I have no confidence that those who should suffer the consequences will do so. There will be more lies, fake news and blaming of everyone but themselves. The chaos will provide an excuse for an even more right wing agenda. Surely MPs can't allow a no deal to happen? There is at least still a chance that it can be stopped before it is too late. If people like us who care and are trying to understand what is happening, give up now, it lets MPs off the hook.