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Brexit

The Spirit of the Blitz

211 replies

Chickenkatsu · 21/08/2019 15:47

blogs.warwick.ac.uk/markharrison/entry/brexit_as_economic/

Fourth, our willingness to “keep calm and carry on” will be much less than was the case in 1939 or 1914. We are not at war. We are divided among ourselves. Our government is representative of an extreme, not of a broad national coalition. Half the country expects Brexit to be painless or quickly beneficial. The other half sees it as a self-inflicted wound. Neither of these constituencies seems likely to put up with much pain for the good of the cause.

OP posts:
howwudufeel · 22/08/2019 17:35

Yes I do understand that one was soldier, the other an elderly Jewish man.
I have never claimed that there was no anti- semitism during WW2. I am not sure why you would say I did.
The article I posted said that Jewish people who had been interned and soldiers were mixed and were treated well.

Helmetbymidnight · 22/08/2019 17:41

you said the article contradicts what women is trying to prove.

how does the experience of a nazi p of w negate british anti-semitism which saw elderly jewish people round up and put in camps?

PancakeAndKeith · 22/08/2019 17:48

The article I posted said that Jewish people who had been interned and soldiers were mixed and were treated well.

Because Jews and nazis will rub along just fine.

Still has fuck all to do with the thread.

Helmetbymidnight · 22/08/2019 18:01

thing is her article didnt even mention the jewish people imprisoned. i dont know where the 'fact' is from.

  • as for oh but they were treated well- they were in a fecking internment camp!
woman19 · 22/08/2019 18:22

More info on this:

At the outbreak of war there were around 80,000 potential enemy aliens in Britain who, it was feared, could be spies, or willing to assist Britain's enemies in the event of an invasion. All Germans and Austrians over the age of 16 were called before special tribunals and were divided into one of three groups

^A' - high security risks, numbering just under 600, who were immediately interned;
'B' - 'doubtful cases', numbering around 6,500, who were supervised and subject to restrictions;
'C' - 'no security risk', numbering around 64,000, who were left at liberty. <strong>More than 55,000 of category 'C' were recognised as refugees from Nazi oppression. The vast majority of these were Jewish</strong>

That many of the 'enemy aliens' were Jewish refugees and therefore hardly likely to be sympathetic to the Nazis, was a complication no one bothered to try and unravel - they were still treated as German and Austrian nationals. In one Isle of Man camp over 80 per cent of the internees were Jewish refugees

More than 7,000 internees were deported, the majority to Canada, some to Australia. The liner Arandora Star left for Canada on 1 July 1940 carrying German and Italian internees. It was torpedoed and sunk with the loss of 714 lives, most of them internees. Others being taken to Australia on the Dunera, which sailed a week later, were subjected to humiliating treatment and terrible conditions on the two-month voyage. Many had their possessions stolen or thrown overboard by the British military guards

^An outcry in Parliament led to the first releases of internees in August 1940. By February 1941 more than 10,000 had been freed, and by the following summer, only 5,000 were left in internment camps. Many of those released from internment subsequently contributed to the war effort on the Home Front or served in the armed forces

www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6651858.shtml

How is it relevant to now? Lots of ways. Sadly.

Peregrina · 22/08/2019 18:36

One article says people at the Huyton camp were treated badly. The other says the opposite.

The key thing being that the experiences reported happened at different times. No doubt, by the time the German POW was interned there, things had changed. It might even have just been a POW camp, and there are international rules about POWs.

Peregrina · 22/08/2019 18:49

I personally used to work with a German who had come to the country as POW. He said he was treated well and subsequently married an Englishwoman and settled here. It does not alter the fact that in the early years of the war, Jews and Nazis were interned together.

As for this wonderful, we'll all pull together stuff - as has been shown, this is something of a rewriting of history.

E.g. In human terms to get so many personnel back from Dunkirk was a magnificent achievement, but it doesn't alter the fact that militarily it was a rout, with the army losing most of its equipment and not being able to mount an invasion until 1944.

However, it is one thing to have a Blitz spirit when you are fighting a monstrous regime led by a dictator. I myself can't see any reason why I should develop a Blitz spirit because Cameron called and lost a Referendum to appease 40 or so mardy moneyed Tories.

woman19 · 22/08/2019 19:02

What was key in this chunks I posted was that the many Jews who had been interned by the British, then went on to fight side by side with Britons to fight the Nazis.

Many of those same people could be facing deportation under current HO post 'brexit' rules, very sadly.

Foreign born veterans of the British Army are facing deportation right now in Britain.

War is messy and terrible.
We've been lucky to have had relative peace in northern Europe so far.
There's a reason for that..........Wink

Peregrina · 22/08/2019 19:19

When my GF was 21 a War started and he was called up.
When my DF was 22 the War started - as a Quaker he was a CO, but had to go before a tribunal to present his case. As it happens he was in a reserved occupation so ended up with an unconditional discharge.

When my DB and DH (both the same age) where 21 and 22 they were enjoying the start of their working lives in peace. When my son was 21/22 he too had graduated and then worked before going on to further study. Am I glad that their lives haven't been blighted by war? Am I glad that my DM and I haven't had to worry ourselves sick about a son or daughter being called up and possibly never seeing them again, because they got killed in battle? Too right I am glad.

woman19 · 22/08/2019 19:28

Yup peregrina reason enough to keep going .

BishopofBathandWells · 22/08/2019 20:18

@Mamamia456 There are already people reliant on food banks in this country who aren't in a position to perhaps store food if they need to.

Prices are going to rise. Big stores are already saying that they won't be selling food in bulk to people they think are small business owners replenishing their own stock levels.

I realise that most people won't be buying in bulk. But the point remains that the big grocery stores are talking, in essence, about rationing what they believe will be dwindling supplies. And if people can't afford to eat already, what does that mean for them?

I live rurally. I wouldn't want to live in an urban area if the shit hits the fan. It's bad enough in a bad snow if people think bread is going to run low. Imagine if we don't have a single trade deal in place to import food? What happens then?

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