Any more Leave supporters on MN?

[SacrebleuLondres]

I've not been on here for a while.

I'm seeing only anti Brexit threads on here.

Any Leave voters out there?

What do we have to look forward to when we Brexit?

[time4chocolate]

The only one i could see sense in was the FOM one, which is completely unsustainable but my opinion is we change it from within, not leave with all the damage that is going to bring us

jas with the best will in the world I don't think that one is up for changing. I think you vastly overestimate our influence (which is unusual for a remain voter, normally it's the leave voters who are accused of this ).

[SacrebleuLondres]

@KennDodd

I agree. But the destruction of a leading political organisation in the UK is not good longer term. There needs to be an opposition. If another party takes its place then that's fine. But if it doesn't it's unhealthy.

[SacrebleuLondres]

@time4chocolate

This is right. I agree. FOM can't be separated from the other three.

But there are conditions we could have applied on FOM which we chose not to - Article 7 of the OJEU. Why not?

Also 75% of immigration today is non EU. If immigration is a problem, why has the UK not curtailed non EU arrivals?

[Wehttam]

I’m really looking forward to the food shortages and medical supply chains being disrupted. I can’t wait to see the fuel shortage problems either, and the possibility of rioting. Who needs to go to Europe anyway? It’ll teach everyone a good lesson. Roll on November 1st!

[bellinisurge]

Would any of you accept a border in the sea? If so, I can live with Leave.

[KennDodd]

I knew a couple of people who voted Leave for genuine reasons based on fact. One was a farmer who hated having to maintain his hedgerows, he wanted to pull them all up and just have stock fences. He knew that even out of the EU the chances were low that hed be allowed to do this but he figured inside the EU there's no chance he could remove his hedgerows. I think he was right and I guess this was more important for him than any other issue.

The other was a big supporter of animal rights and wanted an end to live animal exports. Again she thought outside of the EU there was a better chance of this happening.

I don't know if either of them had given any thought to the peace in NI or cared about it for that matter.

Anyway, two real things these people will be looking forward to that Brexit might just give them.

[SacrebleuLondres]

@KennDodd

Your farmer may soon regret that given the loss of EU subsidies and a possibility of U.K. farming going bankrupt.

There are clearly always annoyances in life - in this case due to an environmental concern which is EU subsidised too - but one must not throw the baby out with the bath water...!

[Theworldisfullofgs]

Hedgerows stop soil erosion and help prevent flooding.
My farmer acquaintance voted leave because he hated the eastern Europeans he employed speaking eastern European languages (I kid you not). No deal will likely see him go bankrupt. His major customer told him they'd terminate his contract.

[jasjas1973]

jas with the best will in the world I don't think that one is up for changing. I think you vastly overestimate our influence


FOM of movement changes are now an open door to be kicked down, terrorism, migrant crisis and the rise of the far right all make change inevitable.

As for influence, how did Thatcher get the much vaunted Rebate, did she say it can't be done? no, she demanded change and got it.
the Uk is a significant net contributor to the EU, of course we've influence and great deal of it.

I'm surprised you give up so easily, then again, leave is running away isn't it.

[ConorMcGregorsChin]

My Dad voted for the first time in his life when we had the referendum. He is a beekeeper. Has been for around 30 yrs. He's worked with Newcastle University for the past 2 decades. Mainly around the affect of pesticides (neoincoticides) on bees. The EU are against such pesticides. The UK would happily waive this. As they would many other things.
A lot of people think that the EU 'control' us
They don't. They actually save us from a lot worse. European Court of Law protects Human Rights.

I am stunned at anyone's choice for us to be in the situation we are now.

[time4chocolate]

But there are conditions we could have applied on FOM which we chose not to - Article 7 of the OJEU. Why not?

I have no idea but I expect the powers that be are wishing they had now.

Also 75% of immigration today is non EU. If immigration is a problem, why has the UK not curtailed non EU arrivals?

Just checked my MN profile in case I mistakenly put myself down as an immigration official but nope, so I can't help you with that question.

What I will say, and it's a big ask but hear me out .......immigration per se is not a problem for me (I know, shocker!).

[Coppersulphate]

I am a leaver.
I just hope Boris delivers as promised.
I want to be rid of the ECJ.
I want us laws to be made and upheld in the UK.
I don't believe a word of that leaked memo. Project Fear.
I am optimistic about our future outside of the EU.

[Coppersulphate]

Conor,
You are wrong about the neonicotinoid pesticides.
The Govt have already said that they will extend the ban after leaving.
I too am a beekeeper and have worked closely with DEFRA on this issue.

[SacrebleuLondres]

@Coppersulphate

Could you perhaps provide an example of the ECJ overruling a decision of a UK court on appeal? It seems that's a major gripe.

[17million]

conorMcgregor
that is incorrect about the EU 'saving us from a lot worse' The ECHR and its European Court of Human Rights are part of a completely different legal system to the EU. The ECHR and ECtHR are both part of the Council of Europe which has 47 member states including Russia and the UK. The European Union (EU) consists of 28 Member States, including the UK.
but I am sure you knew that anyway and were just trying to be anti-brexit {hmm}

[jasjas1973]

We've been through Coppers pointless argument against the ECJ on numerous threads before, first he/she has ever mentioned they are beekeeper though.
Seems to be confused with the ECHR.

Still waiting to hear what all these EU laws imposed on us are lol!

[Coppersulphate]

Sacre,
As I have said many times on these threads it is the principle that I object to.
I do not see why we, as an independent nation, should have some EU court overseeing us.
And before all the remainer jump in, the courts of arbitration only rule on trade disputes.
And I know the difference between the ECHR and the ECJ.

[frumpety]

There are several groups related to Brexit , not the two remain/leave groups that some would like us to believe.

1. those who will be negatively impacted by Brexit but didn't vote for Brexit.
2. those who will be negatively impacted by Brexit and who did vote for Brexit
3. those who will not be negatively impacted by Brexit who voted for it

4.those who will not be negatively impacted by Brexit who didn't vote for it

1. those who were not allowed to vote who will be negatively impacted by Brexit
2. those who were not allowed to vote who will not be negatively impacted by Brexit .

The question is which groups matter the most to those running the country ?

[Coppersulphate]

Has, why on earth would I mention that I am a beekeeper.
I have helped people with beekeeping issues on other threads.

[SacrebleuLondres]

@Coppersulphate

I don't understand. The principle of what?

How does the ECJ oversee us as a nation? Is there an example you can cite which is problematic?

[jasjas1973]

It was just an observation, not an accusation!

The banning of neonicotinoid pesticides is long overdue, the UK held out against such an Eu wide ban for many years,
However, once we leave, there is zilch to stop a future Govt re introducing them, no ECJ to take the UK too, this applies to all aspects of environmental law.

Brexit weakens environmental protection, we quite literally become a law unto ourselves.
so, given how past Govts have pandered to farming and chemical lobbyists and the UK having to have trade offs to seal FTA's i wonder if this is a great idea?

[SacrebleuLondres]

@Coppersulphate

Here's a similar question: can you name one statute applicable in the UK that comes from the EU and has not been passed by Parliament?

[Peregrina]

When you all talk about how the UK could do this that or the other with VAT but the nasty EU is stopping us, just remember that it was an EEC/EU tax in the first place. So we could scrap it altogether, although I am 100% sure that since it's such a good money spinner for the Government that they would replace it PDQ. It used to be Purchase Tax before. Maybe that is what they would do - keep it exactly the same but rename and make a big fanfare of it.

[time4chocolate]

As for influence, how did Thatcher get the much vaunted Rebate, did she say it can't be done? no, she demanded change and got it

That was 1984, the EU then is not the EU we have now. It didn't go quite so well for David Cameron when he had a go.

FOM of movement changes are now an open door to be kicked down, terrorism, migrant crisis and the rise of the far right all make change inevitable

FOM is never going to change, hence, we are in a bit of a pickle currently.

I'm surprised you give up so easily, then again, leave is running away isn't it

Nope, just taking a different direction.

[Peregrina]

I am sure I have asked before but haven't had an answer - those who object to the ECJ do they also object to obeying International Law?