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Brexit

Westminstenders: A photo opportunity

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/08/2019 21:05

Johnson likes publicity.

Any attention is good attention. Whilst you are talking about how crazy his idea is, the less you come up with your own.

And there it is. The lack of plan to stop no deal. Just a bunch of idiots who argue over who is more right about politics without offering up a practical solution.

Unable to see their own flaws.

And leading us ever closer to the cliff edge and operation Yellowhammer.

OP posts:
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Motheroffourdragons · 19/08/2019 13:44

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BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2019 13:46

Ah thanks, mother They are beauts
Blimey, they've grown
Must be eating well

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2019 13:47

Good to see all these Westministender cats hard at work Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2019 13:49

Oops sorry, thanks were to @fishes BlushBlush

Motheroffourdragons · 19/08/2019 13:53

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Motheroffourdragons · 19/08/2019 13:56

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ListeningQuietly · 19/08/2019 13:59
Brew
BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2019 14:00

This is what I was worrying about upthread

I know from experience that disasters in complex projects can happen when too much is new, so insufficient previous experience and too many problems have to be dealt with in parallel,
especially if the problems interact with each other, or the resources need to deal with them interact.

The no-deal threat: What happens when the problems interact?

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/08/19/the-no-deal-threat-what-happens-when-the-problems-interact

The BBC recently devoted the day to "answering your no-deal questions" ....
A fascinating pattern emerged.
Each item, looked at in isolation, was thorough and informative.
But the problem was precisely that each item was looked at in isolation.
There was no attempt to form an overall view or pull together these loose threads. The result was distorting.
.....
When Heathrow Terminal 5 launched, its first day wasn't a failure because someone had overlooked anything truly major.

Staff had a bit of trouble getting into the parking lot with their new passes,
Security, unfamiliar with the new screening systems, took a little longer.
One baggage belt didn't work.
A minor computer glitch led to some flights leaving without any passenger luggage.

By the afternoon, 34 flights had been cancelled and the terminal was full of queues of angry incoming and outgoing passengers.

This is one of the issues with the practical sector-by-sector approach,
especially with such little time for those sectors to talk to each other and explore contingencies for the intersection of their individual unknown-unknowns.

Caucasianchalkcircles · 19/08/2019 14:02

Motheroffour funnily enough there was someone on Twitter the other day saying that if clean water supplies were endangered by a shortage of purifying agents we could just boil it ! She was put right pretty rapidly fortunately Wink

orangeshoebox · 19/08/2019 14:03

you and yours phone in on no-deal brexit tomorrow...

DGRossetti · 19/08/2019 14:04

It's worth recalling how a single misplaced digit managed to bring Facebook down for the best part of a day not that long ago. No amount of wishing made it come back any faster.

TatianaLarina · 19/08/2019 14:06

Interesting. Article confirms my feeling that a No Deal scenario would not not be as bad as people think, it would be a lot worse than even is currently predicted.

The known knowns and known unknowns are currently accounted for, the unknown unknowns are not.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2019 14:10

Jewish Chronical: Brexit Party figures 'appeared on show which promoted Holocaust denial'

Keeping very bad company

https://www.thejc.com/brexit-party-meps-ann-widdecombe-richie-allen-show-david-icke-antisemitic-conspiracy-theories-1.487594

Anti-extremist group reveals that two of the party's MEPs and a prospective parliamentary candidate featured on David Icke-affiliated show

Ann Widdecombe and two other Brexit Party figures have appeared numerous times on a radio show which has hosted conspiracy theorists and Holocaust deniers.

DGRossetti · 19/08/2019 14:12

No deal is Boris down payment to the ERG and Tory nutters in exchange for his winning the next election. He'll deliver no deal. They will deliver the election.

QueenOfThorns · 19/08/2019 14:13

The Titanic would have stayed afloat if the crew had just believed in the boat more... And shouted some like "Make Titanic Float Again" or "No hull is better than a bad Hull".

The Titanic would have stayed afloat if they had steered directly for the iceberg, rather than trying to avoid it and ripping open too many of the watertight compartments that were designed to save it. Perhaps the current government is trying a ‘sailing straight at the iceberg’ approach to Brexit?

DorisDaysDadsDogsDead · 19/08/2019 14:17

I have been wondering if all this No Deal build up is to allow Crispin Odious, JRM et al, to build up their short positions on the £, and then, with foreknowledge switch their positions on the 31st, just in time for BoZo to revoke/extend and so rake in a few extra billion when the £ bounces back up...

StripeyChina · 19/08/2019 14:26

bigly placematting.
thanks, Red

I am trying to decide whether to move back over the Border to Scotland.
Both my ASD kids had a very bad time at school before we left.
So did I (LA didn't 'believe' they had ASD so it got nasty)
And the recent Scotsman article on the economics of IndyRef2 was sobering.
Yet I don''t want to stay in England under a no deal either? Ugh.

Sorry to hear about lack of inhalers - shameful!

phpolly · 19/08/2019 14:28

.

Hazardtired · 19/08/2019 14:49

stripey eek! Have heard many a horror story about LEA's not "believing" in diagnoses, I can see why you would hesitate about moving back. Flowers

hooo dunno what to say 'sorry' seems a bit limp Flowers. Wasn't expecting shortages now but they are rife. At this rate all buffers will be used before brexit even happens Confused. Drink? Gin Wine

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2019 14:49

Stripey In your particular situation, I'd avoid disruption of a move unless things actually worsen sufficiently to make it necessary,
i.e. not just that you fear things might happen
Just investigate, so you have all the info if you do need to move later

But just imo.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2019 14:56

Trade wonk
Dmitry Grozoubinski@DmitryOpines

A lot of the mixed messages around No-Deal preparation stems from the complexity of what a "No-Deal impact" actually is,
and what preparation can look like.

2/ I mentally catalog No-Deal impacts into two groups:

(a) "Broken as Intended" and
(b) "Oh Shi..."

  1. "Broken as Intended" refers to the big, long-term impacts of leaving the SM/CU and the EU.

This includes things like UK farmers facing EU tariffs
and UK hairdressers no longer being able to just take up a job in Berlin.

  1. "Oh Shi..." covers short term disruptions which arise from the abruptness and complexity of the transition.

It includes any disruption that occurs during the first few months of No-Deal, as processes previously reliant on the EU have to be reconfigured.

  1. The "Broken as Intended" vs "Oh Shi..." distinction is important for evaluating preparations and responses.

The former requires long term solutions and a vision for the future,
whereas the latter needs rapid, ideally pre-emptive intervention.

  1. Many No-Deal challenges might be a mix of both.

For example, lamb farmers face a "Broken as Intended" problem in the shape of lost access to their largest market,
but they also face an "Oh Shi..." problem in the form of thousands of sheep more than they can profitably sell.

  1. Responses, by contrast, fall into three mutually dependent categories:
  • UK Government
  • Private Sector
  • Foreign Governments
  1. Much of No-Deal preparation is in the hands of the UK Government. This includes amending legislation, expanding customs posts, and hiring more customs officials.

It can also encourage and inform the private sectors preparations, and lobby foreign governments.

  1. In the short term, probably the biggest "Oh Shi..." risks come from lack of private sector capacity and preparedness.

If 5,000 trucks with the wrong paperwork show up at Dover in early November, there are going to be problems.

10/ Problems may also arise if elements of the private sector haven't adequately thought through their supply chains dependence on friction-less trade.

The government can help and encourage,
but it can't do the supply chain integrity work of a hundred thousand businesses.

11/ There are also challenges which only the timely action (and largess) of other governments can address.

If Spain decides not to honor UK drivers licenses immediately after Brexit,
then that's disruptive but out of the UK's hands.

12/ In light of the above, it's worth keeping some questions in mind when evaluating government statements regarding No-Deal preparation.

(a) To what extent is the impact you're trying to mitigate a short term one born of disruption,
and to what extent is it a new normal?

(b) To what extent is your proposed measure reliant on private sector action,
and what do we know about the state of their preparedness around this?

(c) To what extent is your proposed measure reliant on other governments taking action,
have they formally indicated they'll do so, and how long will it take?

15/ The Government is working hard,
but when they say "we are fully prepared for No-Deal Brexit"
it's worth asking "what part of it, exactly?"
and also, "who is we?"

TheMShip · 19/08/2019 14:57

stripey I'm in the Lothians, my son has ASD, diagnosed 18 months ago. School has been nothing but helpful. Granted, his difficulties are minor (he's a masker at school and very bright), but they've done all sorts like turning off hand dryers and installing paper towel dispensers, additional support for learning with modelling good play behaviour, and can go to a quiet space to decompress whenever he needs it. Maybe we are lucky, maybe things have changed, I don't know, but it's not all bad up here.

ContinuityError · 19/08/2019 15:21

presumably inspired by the Napoleonic defences at Portsmouth ....

Or were those to keep watch over the Napoleonic POWs that had to dig out the Portsmouth naval docks?

StripeyChina · 19/08/2019 15:27

Thanks for wise words of input.
I won't say which area, but it is 1 of: Dumfries and Galloway, Borders, Highland, all of which are well known to operate according to their own 'rules' and to hell with anyone who 'disagrees with' / crosses them.
But my only chance of financial security / stability for kids is to go back.
It's a hard choice alright.

But not as tough as not being able to get vital meds, enter / leave the country, get petrol / food (shortages will happen, even if 'caused' by folk panicking and stockpiling as the Govt clearly has no clue / doesnt care a whit for ordinary folk).

DGRossetti · 19/08/2019 15:27

Or were those to keep watch over the Napoleonic POWs that had to dig out the Portsmouth naval docks?

Double-bubble. Watch the froggy types and keep our own proletariat in check. Bear in mind it was much more the British establishment that were terrified of old Boney. The average Englishman would have quite liked a lot of Napoleons innovations.

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