Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: A photo opportunity

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/08/2019 21:05

Johnson likes publicity.

Any attention is good attention. Whilst you are talking about how crazy his idea is, the less you come up with your own.

And there it is. The lack of plan to stop no deal. Just a bunch of idiots who argue over who is more right about politics without offering up a practical solution.

Unable to see their own flaws.

And leading us ever closer to the cliff edge and operation Yellowhammer.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
45
flouncyfanny · 19/08/2019 21:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:25

Here's the Brexit Party not playing ball

Richard Tice @ticerichard
Let’s be clear: the WA even without the backstop is still the worst deal in history, is not Brexit and the Brexit Party will fight it tooth and nail. This letter confirms our fears that Boris and the Tories cannot be trusted to deliver a proper Brexit.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 19/08/2019 21:26

1) pledge of unspecified new "commitments" to reassure EU on Irish border should "alternative arrangements" not be in place by end of post-Brexit transition period

What transition period? The or 'A' WA has to be signed for this to come into force. Since he's talking about crashing out, there won't be a transition.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:26

And thank fuck for the Telegraph's (!!!) Peter Foster who IS on the ball as usual.

Thread incoming...

OP posts:
flouncyfanny · 19/08/2019 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ImNotYourGranny · 19/08/2019 21:29

It's ground hog day.

UK: We want alternative arrangements. You must consider them.

EU: We will consider them. What alternative arrangements do you want?

UK: Waaaaaaaaaaa! Stop bullying us.

flouncyfanny · 19/08/2019 21:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:37

Peter Foster@pmdfoster
Am stunned off my sun lounger by this @BorisJohnson letter to @eucopresident on the irish backstop. It’s based on a big fat fallacy - that the Irish border issue can be fixed by unilateral commitments or good intentions 1/quick thread

It starts by setting out why the backstop is bad (familiar reasons) and then suggests that the EU bins it (familiar) in the basis that both sides try fix up the “alternative arrangements” by the end of the shortened transition. /2

And yet (as the next para implies) this is pretty unlikely to happen since (see multiple threads passim) they don’t exist and won’t for the foreseeable given All-UK commitment to diverge.

At which point, the U.K. says “trust us”. /3

We’ll “look at what commitments might help”!!!?

So not a mutually agreed EU-U.K. treaty, with governance mechanisms to protect both sides.

Just “trust us”. Seriously?/4

This is not serious negotiation.

It is utter nonsense dressed up to deceive a casual reader that the U.K. is serious.

Don’t be fooled by spurious offer for a “legal commitments” to have no infrastructure “at” the border.

The basic question remains... /5

If all the U.K. is leaving EU customs union and single market then HOW is the UK going to avoid a return to borders of the past??

Trust us? After 2 solid years of failing to come up with operable solutions...mmm, my guess (wild stab in dark) is the EU will say “no”. /7

Recall that it was the 1992 Single European Act (UK joint single market) that made invisible border possible.

If you are leaving those mechanism you need to say how it will work without them...if you are ruling out trade border in Irish Sea /8

It’s totally spurious to say GFA isn’t about customs etc.

A trade border of this kind (given U.K. wish to diverge etc) is the effective economic repartition of Ireland. Don’t expect nationalist communities to help in this. /9

So what does this letter really tell us?

That the U.K. is not serious about a renegotiation here.

Indeed all the strategy is - led by Cummings himself - about how to lead a sham negotiation, per three sources privy to the chat. /10

How will the EU react? And Dublin?

Badly I suspect. Recall @theresa_may OpEd article ahead of the Salzburg summit in autumn 2018.

That went down well, as I recall. /10

As one on EU side puts it.

Not so much megaphone diplomacy.

Just the megaphone. /12

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:38

Peter Foster can't number tweets correctly but he's shit hot about the Irish border.

I'm trying to find another journalist who has 'got' it about the letter....

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 19/08/2019 21:39

@flouncyfanny, we had to do our renewal last month. I'm sure it used to be October too.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:40

David Henig @davidheniguk
What then are we to make of this letter from Boris Johnson to the EU? First up, a welcome reflection of some reality. An actual explanation of the position instead of just slogans. And a more constructive tone on Ireland, I suspect down to Pelosi's comments on a UK-US trade deal

Of the three reasons given, the first two essentially relate to the UK's wish to diverge from the EU, saying it will be anti-democratic if this can't happen. There's some logic to the arguments. The third, or Ireland, is more questionable, but again is probably more US focused

So what then is the proposal. First, to explore alternative arrangements "as far as possible before the end of the transition period". That won't be very far. And then something else to provide "a degree of confidence". The backstop is dead long live the backstop?

To me this part of the letter is most likely drafted by various of those involved with ERG alternative arrangements work, not least given the reference to the existing differences. The problem remains - nobody outside the EU has replaced border infrastructure.

So is this letter a serious offer or not? It is certainly meant to be seen this way, by the US and backbench MPs to name but two. And in leaving the door slightly ajar on a new 'backstop-type' arrangement, it isn't completely out of the question.

Ultimately though the problem never goes away - to avoid all border infrastructure you're going to need a close relationship of one sort or another between the UK (or at least Northern Ireland) and the EU. And the letter still can't recognise this reality.

Final thought - once again it is the UK Government who, having said the EU would fold, are having to change course. The EU will listen, but probably point out red lines and ask for a UK proposal. There won't be one, as to do so will split the Brexiteers. We inch forwards at best.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:43

Oh and final tweet in the Peter Foster thread

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
If Tory backbenchers were asking themselves if this administration was actively interested in getting a deal, this letter should give them the answer.

Not. At least not on this “trust me” basis...its not how serious countries make agreements. /13 ENDS

OP posts:
flouncyfanny · 19/08/2019 21:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:48

We NEED the Brexit Party to not play ball though, don't we? It splits the Tory vote. Hard Leave v Soft Leave.

Hmmm.

In theory we want to split the vote but it doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

Johnson is looking for a clear Tory majority. If he can't get that his only fall back is a Tory/Brexit coalition.

Which could try and push things even further right/towards Trump.

It's another of those careful what you wish for.

We want people to realise both are hell bent on destroying the country.

That's not happening.

OP posts:
Hoooo · 19/08/2019 21:48

A GE?

Oh, the joy...

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:49

Sebastian Payne @SebastianePayne
This the crucial part of Boris’ letter to the EU. No.10 is highlighting the divergence point as a clear break with the May era.

EU officials say it is now “black and white” that the UK wants to deviate from level playing field without answers about how it’ll be managed in NI.

This is code for 'no deal' BTW.

OP posts:
flouncyfanny · 19/08/2019 21:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:51

Iain Martin @iainmartin1
No consensus on Boris letter to EU. It is either a) bold/genuine attempt to reopen talks b) fantastical doomed drivel c) smart scam to make the EU look unreasonable d) wind-up to to drive Remainers round the twist e) cue to go on holiday and forget about British politics.

OP posts:
Hazardtired · 19/08/2019 21:52

Oh god is the telly going to be full of we want a not a backstop, backstop for days?

I can't take it. It's like Johnson and Cummings are trying to bore us into supporting no deal.

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:53

If I were a Tory backbencher, I can assure you I'd have long defected.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:56

Potentially dying from insulin shortages = bumps in the road

Westminstenders: A photo opportunity
OP posts:
flouncyfanny · 19/08/2019 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman19 · 19/08/2019 21:58

Why are journalists not reporting this

Right wing terrorists are silencing them?

www.theguardian.com/media/2019/aug/19/uk-journalists-facing-growing-number-of-attacks-from-far-right

NUJ highlights growing number of far-right attacks on journalists

Union says police need to do more to counter ‘surge in violent extremism against journalists and media workers

This is all completely normal in this type of regime.

Exacerbated by the indigenous intellectual sloth and entitlement, peculiar to this island.

There's going to be a lot of them with very squeaky bums grin

There's one thing which loses them sleep: death threats from right wing nutters.

Few seem to understand the sacrifices that back bench MPs are making of all sides, for what in London, with the London costs of travel and accommodation, is a paltry wage.

Fewer seem to understand the courage it takes to get into the place they work, past rabid fascists there everyday, plus the abuse they receive in SM and in real life.

The current crop of MPs will be missed when they are gone.

We will miss so much more though too.

woman19 · 19/08/2019 21:59

If I were a Tory backbencher, I can assure you I'd have long defected
Where?

RedToothBrush · 19/08/2019 21:59

David Henig @davidheniguk
Lots of comments flying around about the letter. Mostly negative. Could be right. But I'd expect the EU to take it seriously, and ask a lot of questions. Like how do you know Parliament would pass a WA? And what exactly do you propose? And then quickly judge practicality.

The one comment I would emphasise again that I don't think people appreciate - just how important a US trade deal is to the entire Brexit project, and how much therefore the Pelosi comments on the GFA / a UK-US FTA meant this letter had to be written now. Was clearly not the plan

Parliament still won't currently pass the WA / a WA. I'm pretty sure on that.

Too many Steve Bakers and Mark Francoiss and not enough Kate Hoeys.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread