Am I the only one?

[thrumylookingglass]

I have been reading with interest all the threads on this board. Am I the only who cannot believe the tone, content and the sheer catastrophe thinking about this issue? Reading threads about stockpiling and falling out with family and friends over this strikes me as strange. Historically, there a many, many more events that have had a humanitarian impact on the world ... Brexit is not one of these! There may, or may not, be an economic impact of Brexit, but will people die? Get killed? Be oppressed? There needs to be some perspective here.

Just about all the Leave voters I know are way better off than me.

Yep. I don't know that many but those I do know tend to be very well off and after 2 things: less tax and less rights for workers.

I notice you chose not to cut and paste this bit from the same article: Of the 240 local authorities that have low education levels — i.e. more than a quarter of adults do not have five A to Cs at GCSE — 83 per cent voted Leave.

Why would I need to post that bit of the article @twofingerstoEverything? I agreed with Helmet that age and education are two big indicators of how people voted, but my argument is that income is also a factor.

Although now you say it, low education levels are intrinsically linked with poverty and more deprived areas, so perhaps I should have quoted that part too. Thanks for sharing it!

A report by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation also states that income is a factor:

"The poorest households, with incomes of less than £20,000 per year, were much more likely to support leaving the EU than the wealthiest households, as were the unemployed, people in low-skilled and manual occupations, people who feel that their financial situation has worsened, and those with no qualifications."

www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

Well DongDing, it would be nice if the Brexiters could tell us how those on incomes of less than £20K will be better off under Brexit. If they are looking for Boris Johnson to help them out, they will look in vain.

The hope is that with controlled immigration, wages for low skilled workers will rise and rents will fall. It's basic common sense supply and demand. Even Stuart Rose the leader of the Remain campaign acknowledged that this would be a result of Brexit .... although he of course did not see higher wages as a good thing!

Stuart Rose has been proved right since the Leave vote as wages have risen.

Fix the NI border issue or stop wasting time waffling on about how brilliant Leave is. You won. Get over it. Here, I've even done it for you: NI as a special economic zone/border in the sea.

Wages have risen in part due to the increase in the minimum wage and the unfreezing of public sector pay. I doubt all (if any) is due to Brexit effects yet, but what do I know.

The hope is that with controlled immigration, wages for low skilled workers will rise and rents will fall. It's basic common sense supply and demand

Wages have risen very slightly above inflation because each year the min wage goes up by 4 % or more.
We are in a period of relatively high employment, have been for years, yet wages have not risen.
Why would they? pretty much anyone can do low skilled work and there is no option of staying on the dole and higher wages mean higher prices = higher wages.

fwiw i work in what many would consider a high skilled area, wages haven't gone up at all, we can't get staff, the sectors response is to try and alter contracts to get people to work differently/longer hours, in fact a senior manager wants a no deal because he is hoping that the WTD will be scrapped/changed.

The hope is that with controlled immigration, wages for low skilled workers will rise and rents will fall.

Why do you think wages will rise with controlled immigration?

The hope is that with controlled immigration, wages for low skilled workers will rise and rents will fall. It's basic common sense supply and demand

Except it’s not, that’s just idealistic nonsense.

It typical Leaver tunnel vision that something will happen because they want it too, regardless of the realities.

Take fruit picking for example - British workers don’t want to do it because it’s hard work. If farmers can’t get labour they’ll have to stop producing the fruit because they can’t get it picked.

There are all of the usual remainers on here.
Many are either Brits living in EU 27 countries or EU nationals living here. They have a very personal reason to remain.
But to talk about those who voted leave "oppressing" them and ruining their lives is ridiculous.
I voted leave because I think this country will thrive outside the constraints of the EU.
I do not for one minute believe there will be 1000's of deaths and that locations for mass graves are being identified just because of Brexit.
I do not believe that we are about to sell our NHS to the US and we will all have to pay.
Nor that we are about to destroy workers' rights ....where is the evidence?
It is all hype put about by those who want to remain because it suits their personal circumstances.

Many EU workers are now leaving/planning on leaving the UK as the salaries and benefits are now better in their home country. Poland, as an example, has had a huge increase in wages, whereas in the UK they have been frozen or dropped in real terms. Many eastern block workers who were highly qualified came to the UK as there weren’t the opportunities for them at home, they are now leaving taking their sought after skills and knowledge with them. It is having a significant impact particularly in places like the NHS.

copper you can’t believe all you like but it’s not based on facts.

Can you give us just one example of how we will ‘thrive’ outside the EU but couldn’t whilst inside it?

@Coppersulphate you can keep your beliefs thank you very much. I'm a typical uk midlander and prefer an evidence based outlook on life. All the current evidence and balance of probabilities is that things will be worse. There is no evidence or high probability that things will be better. So with no respect whatsoever (mainly because I had my fill of all the belief shite), unless you can show some logic or reasoning I'll treat your posts like the pointless wafflings they are.

X post jason 😂

Jason and Bear,
You give me any evidence at all that workers' rights will be much worse after Brexit?

We will thrive because we will not be sending a pile of money to the EU. We can spend it here and decide exactly how and where to spend it.

We can be completely in charge of our own criminal justice system.
We can make our own trade deals.

Salaries in general certainly haven't gone up. A starting salary in my field is currently the same as it was in 1999.

Jason, where is the "evidence" that things will be worse.
There is panic, hearsay, lies ......but evidence?

Copper we don't just send a "pile of money" to the EU. For one thing there are the rebates, but far more valuable are the trade agreements. We thrive from our relationship with them.

I'm interested to hear these alternative trade deals that will make us wealthier. With the US? I mean, Trump is so rational he just had a hissy fit because he wasn't allowed to buy Greenland, is that really who we want to be pinning our future hopes on?

We have deals with countries all over the globe. We were able to get better terms as part of the EU trading bloc.

I don't think you really understand how this all works.

@Bearbehind do you want to or shall I ?

Copper the government itself believes there will be fucking awful problems. Are you for real?

FGS copper that post could have been written the day after the referendum. It’s just a collection of soundbites

Trade deals my arse - you can’t name one we want but couldn’t have before

Likewise your insistence that we need to be free of the ECJ despite th3 fact it doesn’t even do what you think it does

As for the point about saving piles of money - that will be lost many many times over by the loss of frictionless trade

If you really haven’t taken anything in since then I’m not going to continue to try and explain it to you

Come on,
Where is your evidence that:
Things will get worse
We will sell the NHS to the US and have to pay for health care
Workers' rights will be destroyed ?
You haven't any because it is all a pack of lies.

jason fill your boots - I CBA!