Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

Correction - I meant to describe Ken and Harriet as experienced Parliamentarians, not as experienced "politicians" (although they are that too).

Having just been planting veg to last me through the autumn ......
Brexit HAS to happen
It is the _only way- that the festering sore of a boil will be lanced.

If for any reason or in any way Brexit is stopped, the Brexiters will be able to say - for ever -
It would have been fine if they had given it a chance
and when austerity continues to bite despite remain, they will be able to say
you are poor and angry because you are in the EU

Only by leaving even for a few months will the rainbow unicorns be shown to be lies.

Brexit HAS to happen
What do you mean by 'brexit'?

At the moment, sadly, no deal.
If the WA were to pass at the start of next month, that would be less bad.
However the years of agony that would follow the WA would (at this stage) play into the Brexiters' hands.

However the years of agony that would follow the WA

Well, unless it is likely that the years of agony following the WA would be worse than the years of agony following No Deal, I rather think that anything will be playing into the Brexiteers' hands.

(Alternatively, the local Leavers, who seem rather riled for some mysterious reason, would have us believe that there won't be any agony for any appreciable period after their preferred No Deal. They haven't specified whether they still expect years of agony after WA - logic suggests that they do expect post-WA agony, seeing as they prefer No Deal 🤷🏻‍♀️).

Sorry, I'm still not sure, what do you mean by 'brexit'? listening?

FFS - still needing an explanation of what "Brexit" means after over 3 years does go a long way in explaing why we're at where we are at now, right now (in a mess). Simply it means the UK leaving the EU - the question that needs answering is how we Leave the EU.

As no agreement on how the UK leaves the EU has been reached, agreed by all concerned, it's heading for a No Deal Leave. And looking more likely every day. It's going to take something 'powerful' to stop this from happening or that's what it's going to be.

2/3 of constituency areas voted to leave
that must never be forgotten

Since the vote wasn't held on a constituency basis, it's an irrelevance. Some of them, my own for one, are rather contrived areas with places spatchcocked together to make the numbers balance.

There was even talk at the next revision of putting a part of Oxfordshire to the East of Oxford into West Oxford - utterly cockeyed.

But if we are going to go down that route, then Scotland and N Ireland voted to Remain, which is constantly dismissed because the vote was for the whole UK.

As the 'brexiters' appear to have confirmed; Brexit has no definition.

An appalling legal basis for a 'decision'.

Although to the violent sods who've just beaten up Owen Jones, threatened Lammy, Grieve, Lucas, Wollaston and Phillips and hundreds more, it's clear what they think it means.

And the creep who assassinated Jo Cox.

I'm with the 70%.

Let's not bother.

Only by leaving even for a few months will the rainbow unicorns be shown to be lies

Won't work, Brexitiers will say that we just need more time/the delays caused this/not a pure brexit/global recession... would have happened anyway and if all else fails Corbyns fault.

We cannot leave and then just pop back in, when will people realise Brexit is for many years, if not decades.

Don't any of you get it yet? Pat explanations of how you think "brexiteers" think isn't going to get anyone anywhere is it? Hardly anyone who voted to leave/remain/or didn't vote in the 2016 can be classified into a distinct group.

Anyone who has any sense about them realizes that the UK is leaving the EU and, as it currently stands, without a 'deal'. That is the defining factor right now - many people who voted Leave or Remain don't want that.

Those are the only facts and imagining it's otherwise is living with unicorns - no matter how you voted.

the question that needs answering is how we Leave the EU.

And in part this is because the country is very much evenly split as to whether we should leave or not. I think if there was a genuine majority for leave of the 2/3 -1/3 or even 3/4 -1/4 split then there would probably be something of a consensus on the preferred option.

Anyone who has any sense about them realizes that the UK is leaving the EU and, as it currently stands, without a 'deal'

May said on numerous times we were leaving 29/3, she spent billions prepping for it, had many stockpiling and we all read the scare stories from various Govt ministers..... we were all panicking during Jan, Feb and March too.

No-Deal splits apart the tory party, wrecks the economy and in all likelihood will put Corbyn in Downing st, none of that has changed.

I don't know what BJ will do when it finally dawns on him the EU are not going to change the backstop (if it hasn't already) but i don't believe he will leave with no-deal.

Peregrine I completely agree with that viewpoint, but so far, the fact that the votes to Leave the EU were very slightly more than the votes to Remain hasn't yet altered the fact that the UK will be leaving the EU on Oct 31st. And at this point without a 'deal'.

All the challenges, the attempts to overturn and even the WA have not been successful to date. There it is. Only the application of focused and experienced minds could find a way, if it's possible.

Those minds will be looking at 'mechanisms' and 'process' and little else. Whilst I might see that, my belief is that too few do and so the 'no deal' scenario will be what we end up with.

jas - not sure why you think BJ will dodge the 'no deal' brexit. He's hung his petard on that. That's where we're going unless someone comes up with a Really Good Idea - JC has had a bit of go except it involves him being PM, so that's pretty much a non-starter.

I'm a prepper so pretty much I'll always get through - wherever, whatever - but I do realize that not everyone is like that and they're a bit scared.

No-Deal splits apart the tory party, wrecks the economy and in all likelihood will put Corbyn in Downing st, none of that has changed.

Do you think that Boris Johnson cares whether the Tory party splits or not?

I don't know what BJ will do when it finally dawns on him the EU are not going to change the backstop (if it hasn't already) but i don't believe he will leave with no-deal.

He will do whatever it takes for him to come out OK.

May also hung her coat on leaving the EU on the 29th March, she said it over a 100 times, she couldn't have been clearer.

As of Feb '19 it was 50x

www.conservativehome.com/video/2019/02/watch-50-times-may-said-were-leaving-the-eu-on-29th-march-2019.html

The U.K. is going to have to decide what relationship it wants with its neighbour, deal or not.

No deal would be the start of a process not the end of one.

People who do not talk about what happens after no deal do not understand what no deal means.

Someone just retweeted an old thread on twitter from a former leaver, which makes the case that no dealers are "simplists", people who like simple explanation and solutions for complex problems. I think this is quite a powerful explanation for the "just leave" and "it'll be fine" mindset. Worth a few mins of your time.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1113044616557879299.html

Yes i think he does, legacy for these people is everything, Politicians exist to be re-elected.
Do you honestly think DC would have called this referendum had he known the outcome?

Assuming ND really is this disaster (imho it will be) then Johnson will cop the blame for that, for as you say, he has made it clear its his policy.

I am preparing for the immediate crash out, but I am not looking forward to the prolonged recession that follows. I never thought I would see the day when the Conservatives would wilfully crash the economy, flying in the face of civil servants, industry and donor advice. Even after Black Wednesday

It comes to something when even Aaron Banks has regrets about the Leave vote.

The U.K. is going to have to decide what relationship it wants with its neighbour, deal or not.

I think it's neighbour has already worked it out. Actions speak louder than words, after all. And if we don't believe our own Prime Minister, it's hard to expect any other country to either.

No deal would be the start of a process not the end of one. well said Mistigri, because it will be.

This isn't about winning or losing. I have noticed how most Threads on the Brexit Board are now concerned with 'Brexit Stash', which shows most know that Brexit is happening, like it or not.

.

Does anybody have an answer to my 3pm question ?

If there was a snap General Election
would the nationalists / non sectarians in Northern Ireland stick with Sinn Fein?
or would they vote for MPs who would argue their case in Westminster?

DGR - isn't that what people have been saying since the ref in 2016? All very nice, but unfortunately doesn't do anything so it a bit pointless really

Listening hopefully someone who actually lives/votes in NI can answer your question. I'm as interested as you to know the answer too.