Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

e.g. I think Corbyn would be a dreadful PM
(in a full 5-year term, not for a few weeks with C&S)

So would Swinson or Lucas

BJ certainly will be horrendous

The DUP 🤮 are in a distant century

However, I would never wish the state to remove any of them as possible choices for voters, just because they might do stupid & harmful things to the country.

(atm, only the SNP, Plaid & Lady Hermon look to be responsible parties in the HoC)

It may be anti-democratic if the option that might win is removed

It would certainly reduce the acceptance of the result, which is very damaging for democracy
I'd love to exclude this hard right brand of Tories from the next GE, but I can't

Anyway, atm the only possible route to a PV is if there is a GNU + an extension + a GE before Brexit + Labour wins !
We're almost in 🦄 territory, so personally I won't worry about it

That was the only reason we had a referendum: many people demanded one

Did they? at the height of UKIP popularity, they got no MPs and 3.7m voted for them across the country.

Which is similar to what the Brexit Party would get now.

Ime most people especially leave voters, are sick to death of brexit and quietly want it to go away, as one of my more vocal leaver friends (in 2016) said the other day "I don't talk about brexit, it just brings everyone down, in or out i don't care anymore"

This is a view i hear more and more (not on here!) most people like to be led, if BJ revoked tomo, the 'papers would crucify him but he would survive and probably win the next GE, as there would be a huge economic bounce.

It also explains why so few leavers post anymore.

If we thought No Deal genuinely only had 19% of voters in the country, we'd want a ref, to totally crush the No Dealers

I think there's only 19% of people who genuinely want no deal (I don't believe they know what it means but I believe they want it.) What I don't trust is putting something so dangerous on a ballot paper when the last referendum and the psy ops around it tell us that our democracy is so fatally compromised. 19% of people want it now. That can be whipped up... by anti-democratic and unlawful means - but then we are 'democratically' stuck with the result of that.
Polling prior to the referendum on what mattered most to voters consistently puts wanting rid of the EU low on the list. Yes the press had been feeding us anti-EU rhetoric for decades, but even so - people cared about schools and the nhs and how much their council tax was and not about leaving a trading bloc. They whipped up the rabid desire to get out very quickly and have been making it more extreme ever since. They can do that again. No deal popularity only has to peak for a day - as long as it is the right day.
I'm not afraid of how many people actually want it. I'm afraid of what unscrupulous and illegal activity people who have spent a lot of money pursuing brexit will do to achieve it.

regarding the death penalty - I didn't mean not allowing us a referendum on it now (perish the thought), I meant that at the time it was outlawed it was done so against popular public opinion. When it suits the govt they do not do what the public want them to (whether that was because they were signing up to the ECHR or just decided it was wrong - doesn't matter - they enacted policy against public opinion because it suited them). They are supposed to act in the people's best interest, instead. Refusing no deal brexit is the same as any other unpopular law or action they push through. They do that all the time. The fact that it would be super un-democratic or unprecedented to categorically refuse no deal is a nonsense. Everyone always hates the govt - precisely because they shove through unpopular policy all the time. It's what the govt are! Any govt. There is nothing special about brexit - no reason it should be above being shaped and manipulated by parliament like every other policy - not unless we all agree to make it different. Brexit is not sacred. Not any more than the law allowing us to put prisoners to death was.

An event on 29th September in Manchester

cirque de resistance

If we have a GE at the end of a GNU won't people still vote on a wide variety of issues, not just Brexit? No matter how "snap" it may be? Or any kind of GE?

regarding the death penalty - I didn't mean not allowing us a referendum on it now (perish the thought), I meant that at the time it was outlawed it was done so against popular public opinion.

Was it ? Or is history being rewritten again.

The death penalty was abolished (following a period of suspension - pun probably intended) after ongoing research by the Home Office (which involved a Royal Commission where civil servants toured the world witnessing various methods of judicial killing) because juries were becoming more and more skittish about finding murderers guilty if they knew they'd be executed. Not helped by the triple whammy of a wrongful execution*, a spiteful execution, and an unpopular execution in less than a decade with Evans, Bentley and Ellis respectively.

A trip through newsreel and paper reportage of the time reveals vast abolitionist rallies outside prisons at the time.

The Royal Commission itself tried to hang onto the death penalty (again, pun most definitely intended) by reducing the circumstances that warranted it. However, juries - possibly sensitised by the horrors of WW2 - continued to be jittery.

At the end of the day it was felt better to not have a death penalty at all (Silvermans Folly ....) than have it, and risk a murdered going free thanks to jury nullification. So here we are.

If I were to serve on a jury for murder where the defendant faced the death penalty, then I would acquit automatically.

*Evans execution left the real killer - Reginald Christie - free to kill again. More than once. So whenever some dimwit starts spouting on about how the death penalty means killers can't do it again, gently remind them (although they probably have quite thick heads) that only applies when you kill the correct person. If you kill the wrong one, you effectively close the investigation and leave a real killer free to kill again. And again. And again. So let's not have any bollocks about the death penalty preventing further murders. It hasn't and it won't.

If I were to serve on a jury for murder where the defendant faced the death penalty, then I would acquit automatically.

Such a good point. I would too.

@OwenJones84
This is a bit dramatic, so firstly I’m fine, but last night - when I was celebrating my birthday - I was attacked, along with my friends, in a blatant premeditated assault.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1162747482209685505

I may not always agree with him, but it's clear what's going on.

Dominic Grieve has warned of this today.

A Conservative MP has accused Boris Johnson of putting his life at risk because his “tub-thumping populism” over Brexit has triggered death threats against him

In an extraordinary criticism, Dominic Grieve said the prime minister was “behaving like a demagogue” – arguing it led directly to “vile” and menacing messages from members of the public

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-death-threats-dominic-grieve-no-deal-brexit-second-referendum-a9063576.html

This is the measured and considered, ex Attorney General Dominic Grieve.

Yesterday faking a Guardian article about the LDems & Chuka
Today a beating up

The far right are very busy
Wonder why

Er, if we’re talking about opinion polls:
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/08/17/48-35-britons-would-rather-have-no-deal-and-no-cor

By 48% to 35% Britons would rather have No Deal and no Corbyn

Agreed!

Wonder why
Yup.

Well that's a new first for BJ:

The first PM to be accused by one of his own MPs of triggering death threats against MPs

• and justified too

A new first for BJ; a new low for the UK

How many within that 48% are primarily motivated by the "No Corbyn" part of the question ?

The questions being asked recently just seem to skew bloody results.

I'd say the far right is getting a bit rattled.

How many within that 48% are primarily motivated by the "No Corbyn" part of the question ?

I certainly am - I’m a Tory Remainer, but I’m afraid Corbyn as PM is an absolute red line for me. A Ken Clarke or even Jo Swinson, maybe, but the reality is that Labour will support no PM except Corbyn, and the public apparently prefers No Deal to him. Catch 22.

Ian Dunt@IanDunt

Even at the height of Corbyn excess, you didn't hear many loyalists publicly using the word 'purge', let alone MPs.

We're watching the Conservative party go completely mad.
............
Owen Paterson MP@OwenPaterson

"The Tories will leave the EU...win a general election...destroy Corbyn...facilitate Farage’s retirement...

purge the Tory party of its hardcore Remainers

and embark on a radical remodelling of Britain’s economy...the alternative is socialist calamity."

https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/14/tory-arch-remainers-will-soon-find-have-no-place-left-party/

@cendrillonsings
You didn't post this from the same poll:-
"Imagine the final outcome of Brexit was Britain leaving the European Union without any deal. Would you consider this to..
Total acceptable: 38%
Total unacceptable: 49%

Or this:-
"Imagine the final outcome of Brexit was Britain leaving the
European Union with an alternative deal that included remiaing
in the single market and customs union. Would you consider this to be...
Total acceptable: 54
Total unaccdptable: 27

Better watch out you don't get purged, if you're a Tory Remainer

Now an idea that attracts my attention is a Ken Clarke/Harriet Harman joint PM-ship. A combination of these 2 very experienced politicians could well get my 'vote'.

Unless the 'infinitum' aspects of the WA backstop, highlighted by the AG, Geoffrey Cox, can be altered to be time-limited, before No Deal Leave.

I am actually worried about Grieve's safety BigChoc He is such a nice man.
From that peculiar you gov poll too:
70%.

Since I’m not a politician or even a party member, I don’t think there’s much they can do to me. I’ll still vote for them over Corbyn any day of the week though - he and his coterie are the one thing keeping us loyal. If someone like Blair were leader, I’d vote Labour for the first time, god help me.