Westminstenders: Charge!!!!

[RedToothBrush]

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

I see that Ken Clarke has said he would not reject an offer to become PM. We know in his case that as the Father of the House, he won't be around all that much longer. I would expect him to stand down at the next election.

Remainers and moderate Leavers, if they still exist, would be able to get behind him.

Remainers and moderate Leavers, if they still exist, would be able to get behind him.

You're going to need an awful lot of Labour MPs to vote for a Thatcher cabinet minister.

I'd love to see Ken as the UK's shortest serving prime minister but I do honestly think that it's highly unlikely to happen except in a real last ditch, emergency scenario.

I've just been reading what Ken Clarke has said and it seems he wants a unity government to try and negotiate a soft brexit. I can't see this plan getting a majority of MPs support either.

You could pick reasons not support any MP but in all honesty if the anti no-deal MPs cannot support Clarke for just a few weeks, then they may as well sign the no-deal bill and make it law...oh wait they already have!!!!

Exclusive:

Dominic Cummings tonight told advisers to come up with ideas for a Boris Johnson majority Government

'Imagine what it would be like if in eight weeks we have left the European Union and then we smash Corbyn in a general election'

Steven Swinson, The Times

And this, same source

Dominic Cummings asked special advisers to come up with one-page submissions detailing their department's biggest achievements ahead of potential general election

He wants both the achievements and data backing them up - the kind of information Govt can't access during purdah

Sounds like things are moving behind the scenes

Do you think there is any way BJ -Cummings-would/could call a GE to avoid a VONC and the associated GNU shenanigans?

He can't call a GE without the explicit collusion agreement of at least some of the opposition parties as the FTPA means that a 2/3 majority is required in order to over-ride the dates decreed in the FTPA

I agree with Violet that BJ will take us out with No Deal and will blame the EU and remainers but that would only work for him if he gets to go for the GE quick smart. Because otherwise he will get blamed for it going to shit by the electorate. I think they will stop being his backers pretty soon.

You could pick reasons not support any MP but in all honesty if the anti no-deal MPs cannot support Clarke for just a few weeks, then they may as well sign the no-deal bill and make it law...oh wait they already have!!!!

A lot of anti-no deal Labour MPs failed to support the Cherry amendment.

You've got to ask whether they are really that anti-no deal.

Also, anyone still going for the school of thought that JRM and his disaster capitalist chums only want to take us to the brink of No Deal then pull back just in time after shorting the markets??

Plus, re writing my earlier question, surely remain MPs would be more likely to go for a gnu with a leader/deputy from different parties who can work together?

the FTPA means that a 2/3 majority is required
If Boris called for an election would Jeremy Corbyn really refuse him? Surly that is Jeremy's wet dream! Should be easy to get a 2/3 majority.

The problem with an election just before or over the Brexit deadline is that by October, if no deal is looking like the most likely outcome, you risk full-on panic in shops and the financial markets.

If a GE is already underway there is effectively no one at the wheel during a period of national crisis.

Yes - if the various no to no deal factions cannot agree on anything else - they should at least agree to not hand a GE to Boris Johnson on a platter at a time of his choosing. If he attempts to hold one after brexit they all should all refuse to vote for it - make him the carry the can with a minority govt.

I've just been reading what Ken Clarke has said and it seems he wants a unity government to try and negotiate a soft brexit. I can't see this plan getting a majority of MPs support either.

This is so headbangingly frustrating. A unity govt should be neither for nor against brexit. It should include people who want to leave (with a deal) and people who want to remain. they just need to agree to let the people choose whether they want the deal they get or to remain LIKE JACOB REES MOGG ONCE SUGGESTED Because they clearly can;t agree amongst themselves and they need a fresh mandate to pass anything.
Those that want the deal - campaign for the deal.
Those that don't - don't.
Having open leavers in a govt of unity is better because otherwise it really is just a remain coup. When what it actually needs to be is enough MPs to vote for an extension and then vote to hold a referendum. There isn't going to be a 'deal' beyond the W.A (before brexit happens) ... and there isn't much point a temporary govt reopening the political declaration - it's non-binding. Whoever becomes the next govt can change it according to their manifesto pledges IF the W.A wins the ref.
It doesn't matter AT ALL who leads this. Just that enough of them agree to do it. Why are they all making this so much more difficult than it needs to be?

It's not rocket science.

'Imagine what it would be like if in eight weeks we have left the European Union and then we smash Corbyn in a general election'

May thought she would smash Corbyn. Don't forget that there are an awful lot of disgruntled Tories out there.

Thanks BCF

Things have moved on since May's 2017 election - she was riding high in the polls until then. Leaving the EU was still what seemed a long way off. Johnson and Cummings may be hoping for a Johnson bounce, but I suspect all that will do is bring some Brexit/UKIP people back to the fold. With both Labour and Tories doing badly in the Local Elections and the European Elections the Labour party might think twice (maybe not with Corbyn). Then there are a number of Independents, who are a bit of an unknown quantity, plus the Tories like Grieve who will almost certainly lose their seats even if not deselected and Hammond who has spoken out, so the mood for a GE with the clock at a few minutes to midnight might not be so enticing. (Well I hope I am right.)

Have caught up with the last few days of posts...my tuppence FWIW:

• I still think there's no way of stopping no deal now.

Let's assume by some miracle a GNU can be formed (I am doubtful but will suspend disbelief for a second)...it will either result in the caretaking Govt asking for an extension for a second referendum or a GE.

1. GE: Polls suggest a Con Govt with a BXP C&S to get no deal Brexit through IMO = no deal

1. Referendum: Depends on the question, the fairest way of doing it would be two staged - Remain vs. Leave and then...if the referendum returns a Leave result...WA or No Deal.

This isn't a way out IMO.

If Leave wins, polls show a significant majority for No Deal over the WA = No deal.

If Remain wins, it won't be by very much. So then we have two referendums with marginal results. Then what?

Presumably we would then go to GE anyway to end the GNU. Refer back to Option 1 = no deal.

We need a new flowchart!

This is my thinking though....can anyone tell me why, if a GNU were formed, there are reasons to think it wouldn't end in no deal anyway?

Ken is almost 80. Even my parents who are of similar age, very active, worked through their 70s, hung up their roaming boots at 80.

It’s not an age to be taking on a national crisis.

...and to use a quote already used by Cummings (about all politicians) I think this snippet from T.S.Eliot is a reasonably good summation of the Remain and Soft Brexit side...

"“Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass…
Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion…”

Tomorrows newspapers

On a separate note...I've come across an interesting reading list that touches on a lot of topics we've discussed on the threads...

"I also learned a lot from Bradley Campbell’s and Jason Manning’s The Rise of Victimhood Culture (2018), alongside Jon Haidt’s and Greg Lukianoff’s The Coddling of the American Mind (2018), both of which point to worrying developments in our wider culture that look set to increase rather than curb populism and polarisation."

Full list here: unherd.com/2019/08/how-to-understand-the-rise-of-national-populism/

Have only just stumbled across unherd.com - some interesting articles.

I think majority support for a government of national unity could be found if the people who were supporting it were absolutely plain that they were for stopping “No Deal” but that’ was alll.

All the Lib DemS and the the SNP should support it given their stated opposition to “No Deal”, if they don’t then they are either more concerned about party advantage or stopping Brexit entirely, and they should not be. So that’s 49 MPs

Any Labour MP who isn’t pro no deal should support it for the same reason. There should be 240 such MPs

Any anti “No Deal” Conservstive should support it and subtracting the max strength of thr ERG of 100 leaves about 211 MPs. So the person that is proposed to head a GNU after a VONC and possibly after a failed attempt to form a government by Corbyn needs to be somebody acceptable to all those people.

Logic would suggest that since they remain the largest party, an alternative Conservative “caretaker PM” should be chosen. However, among the groups likely to support a temporary government, Labour should be the largest, so who might it be from their ranks?

Clearly if it’s Corbyn the Tories won’t back it. If it were a mainstream conservative the Labour Party should back it if they are actually wanting to Stop No Deal, but I bet they won’t.

Of the Labour MPs confirmed as standing down at the next GE, Stephen Pound would be my pick , years as shadow Sec of State for NI should give him an understanding of that crucial issue at least.

Labour MPs confermed to date as standing down at the next GE are here:
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/6-labour-mps-stand-down-17544372