Please can someone tell me the upsides of Brexit

[CleopatrasMum]

Apparently Dominic Raab has said there are many upsides of Brexit. The article in the Guardian that I read this in gave no details of what Raab (presumably) went on to say those upsides were.

Please can someone explain them to me?

Link to article here for what it's worth:

Raab says Brexit will bring 'huge series of upsides' for UK trade

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/raab-says-brexit-will-bring-huge-series-of-upsides-for-uk-trade?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

The thing about regulation is that first, some of what the EU has in place is drawn from UK regulation to start with. Second, what adopted at UK/EU level is often adopted elsewhere in the world (GDPR is a god example).
Also if we want to trade with the EU we will need to confirm to it’s standards.
So the idea that leaving the EU equals a bonfire of red tape is completely untrue.

GDPR is a good example. Without it or very similar we don't get what is called "adequacy" which facilitates international use of personal data , particularly in retail and other services.
And we had data protection legislation in the UK before the EU had it.

Regulation is increasingly global now. Even if we turned our back on all trade with the EU - which is impossible - we would find many other countries and trade counter parties insisting on comparable standards.

Well, I don’t think I have ever voted for anyone who got in! But that’s not the point....

I was responding to the poster who declared that we can elect our Leaders, when in fact, it can be quite difficult even to chose an MP you really want, never mind a Leader.

We can wipe vat on sanitary products slightly faster than if we remained in the EU

You could scrap VAT altogether, since it was originally an EU tax. However, I am pretty sure that Governments of all persuasions would introduce something else to replace it, because it raises money for them.

Of course you should vote for both houses

Why @bellinisurge

It’s not a matter of can’t be arsed for me. It’s a matter for thinking that they serve different purposes and voting for the Lords does not serve that purpose IMO.

The Lords do not run the country nor do they make laws. That is done by the Commons. I want a more checks on elected politicians, especially in today’s age when they spout shit to get votes.

peregrina I'm sure they'd call the replacement something like the patriot tax and raise it higher too but that's a whole different mess

Part of the uks problem is that half the people living in it secretly (or not so secretly) work against it and are unpatriotic.

Yup, well said, though it's nowhere near half, its a bunch of racist, masochistic cultists blind to facts or too cowardly to face up to the consequences of their beliefs.

The country that I knew was somewhere to be proud of, quietly proud in the British way founded on pragmatic and honest self belief- the antithesis of the john bull caricatures that are johnson and farage.

PortLouis1996, do you live in the Mascarene archipelago? Just curious about posters from antipodean areas on these threads...

For me, the upside of Brexit will be Scottish independence. Which I was on the fence about a few years ago, but now see as inevitable and desirable. It will now be less tricky because some EU states who were previously inclined to use their right to veto in certain situations have seen firsthand the type of arrogance that Scotland has been facing for centuries and have changed their views.

Scotland is not the same as NI

Both are in the EU.

This, for instance, is a pretty clear indication of how the "Celtic fringes" of the Empire have been treated for decades: as random, unidentifiable, yet similarly subservient entities.

And what exactly is the problem with the backstop?

WA was rejected 3 times because of the backstop. Wording of WA does not specify a time limit for such mechanism. Nor does it allow UK to leave unilaterally.

So EU could have kept UK in the customs union and single market forever. That was the legal advice given by the UK Attorney General, Cox. That T May tried to prevent the legal advice from becoming public knowledge is prove that she knew it was a bad deal.

Johnson has rightly said there will be no deal until backstop is removed. Nobody enters any form of negotiations unless they are prepared to walk away.

EU to support a member state in its insistence that a non-member (as the UK will become) complies with an international treaty signed by both parties

EU regulations require border control between EU and non EU countries. How would a border installed by EU between ROI and NI represent a breach by NI/UK ?

For me, the upside of Brexit will be Scottish independence

I think Scotland will go for independence regardless of what type of Brexit occurs, deal or no deal. Work out a “divorce settlement” to cover the cost of North Sea Oil development funded by England and possibly a refund of the Barnet formula?

Then install a border between Scotland and England.

Not sure what currency Scotland will want to use. The previous independence referendum in 2014 talked about using the UK pound? How that is independence I am not sure.

NI then merges with ROI.

What about Wales? Don’t know what their plan might be?

We take back control from an undemocratic superstate with tyrannical tendencies.

Think most realized that 350 Million per week for NHS was not going to happen. It can't as that is not the amount UK pays to EU. After rebate it closer to 200-250 per week.

Leave vote was more to do with UK not wanting to be controlled by Brussels and immigration.

Brexit looks like it’s going to be messy, I don’t doubt it’s going to affect our economy, our way of lives and the future of this country. However that really depends on the general election outcome, and if we get a competent government. looking at the options available in our broken fptp system probably not going to be a stellar government we can put our faith in. But then we had our referendum on fptp and I accept that’s the system the country voted to keep using.

Anyway, positives.... let’s see I’m guessing we can finally scrap vat on tampons, and possibly farming and fishing industries might pick up. Is it truly worth the upheaval, time will tell.

Another positive The government can’t blame the bogeyman in Brussels for any legislation that is unpopular anymore. They will find themselves 100% accountable and have to do a real job instead of relying on EU legislation just being enacted in UK law. Let’s see how good they are at it.

I’m hoping the EU take a long hard look at itself and think how it can reform because once we are out, other nations may follow suit. Perhaps Other nations that didn’t adopt the euro might have a strong patriotic element to their national psyche and populism might force them to leave too.

There is still a lot of resentment in some nations that EU is essentially Germany taking all the wealth and dictating how things should be done (am thinking Greece) if full fiscal union is achieved some see this as Germany almost creating their own empire. It’s been fascinating to hear some opinions of Greeks, Slovaks, Scandinavians I know. On the one hand they love the EU but in the other they eye Germany with suspicion. If you think we still focus too much on WW2 we are definitely not alone.

Anyway not much positives, I don’t think we can achieve much though blaming each other. This situation has been brought to us by politicians in the UK and the EU, being arrogant and out of touch, and being so far removed from the man on the street they let populism take over. Its no wonder that most of this country stuck 2 fingers up at them and voted to leave.

Same can also be said of the US Democrats, Hilary Clinton was a very poor choice of candidate, she did some very questionable things and Trump won on an antiestablishment ticket.

I also agree you average leave voter did not vote because of the 350 million figure. To keep stating that they are going to be in for a rude shock when they don’t see an improvement in the NHS is to totally fail to understand what motivates a leave voter. The majority are from working class areas of England that have watched heavy industry disappear from their communities and seen it moved abroad and then see the rise of Eastern Europeans in their towns willing to work for minimum wage and sleep god knows how many to a house (thus not having the same living costs). They are also fed up of seeing drunk young Eastern European men blighting their areas with antisocial behaviour. They feel alienated by polish corner shops and not hearing English voices on public transport. These are people who have had globalisation, unemployment and food banks forced upon them. They might get a shiny play park with an EU funded sign on it, but they’ve watched their kids grow up and either leave their communities for work or stagnate in their communities working in minimum wage / zero hours jobs.

For them it is easy to blame the EU for their woes, when really it’s globalisation and capitalism but they don’t see that. Yes more could’ve been done to better improve integration, and I think a lot of Eastern European’s thought life in the UK would be easy money, but working hard, living in poor conditions and missing family back home will cause drinking and antisocial behaviour, especially if the locals hate you. It’s not the Eastern European’s fault either, they are just easy scapegoats.

I think Boris Johnson is very clever talking about investing millions into upgrading regional transport systems and supposed low tax commerce areas in former major ports. He’s going after their votes for sure (but where is the money coming from though?!)

To Fucket (great username btw)

EU expansion was too quick. Someone from the original core members of the EU wanted to create an equivalent of USA. Can partly see the logic in that EU wanted to avoid being crushed in between USA and the emerging economies of the East such as China and India.

What EU overlooked was that USA has the advantage of; common language, currency and culture (although from my time in the USA the state of California seemed to be disliked). Likewise China and India have such vast populations they can remain independent if they wish and still prosper on trade.

EU is very diverse. Of the 28 members 19 use the Euro and the other 9 use their native currency, UK included and they are one of the largest members!

Due to the rapid expansion of EU from West to East the EU has 10 members that pay in and 18 that take out from the EU funds. I can't see how that is sustainable in the long term.

When UK leaves the EU there will be 9 members paying in and 18 taking out. Again how is that sustainable in the long term?

Since 1999, UK trade with EU has ran at a deficit as single market is more favourable to manufactured goods as opposed to services. As UK economy is now 80% services EU membership is less attractive.

Germany economy is 30% industry. Germany has a trade surplus with the EU.

France has a good balance of, energy, tourism, agriculture and manufacturing. 60% of France's exports go to other EU members.

So easy to see why both France and Germany want the EU to continue - they are both making money from the EU whereas UK does not even though it is the third largest donor to the EU.

Nobody enters any form of negotiations unless they are prepared to walk away.

Implying that 'walking away' maintains the status quo - ie revoke article 50.
You don't 'walk away from negotiations after chopping your leg off.

next time you go to the hospital British doctors and nurses will greet you at the door and hold your hand to the clinic
We take back control from an undemocratic superstate with tyrannical tendencies.

Friday night comedy is pretty rubbish these days

Implying that 'walking away' maintains the status quo - ie revoke article 50

No, because EU would not enter into negotiations until Article 50 had been invoked by UK. The 2 year period specified in Article 50 is to allow for the EU and the Country who has chosen to leave to agree how the departure should take place and to agree any sums due from the leaving member.

The two year period was wasted because T May eventually took no deal off the table (despite saying previously that no deal was better than a bad deal) and attempted to bully MPs into a;

"it is my deal or no brexit"

Thankfully sufficient MPs held their nerve and voted against the WA three times.

Fucket - the UK is actually very good at producing robust regulation, that’s why the EU and other jurisdictions have taken our approach as the basis for theirs quite frequently.
As I’ve mentioned we won’t be free of the impact of EU regulation. But of course now we can’t influence it. Which is a shame because often our influence was very positive. Whatever the quality of the average voter - probably best I don’t express a view on that - we have capable people in our civil service and regulatory bodies who are internationally respected.

I'm confused , did leaver or remainer MP's vote against the WA ? I know it is a while ago now, but I thought it was mainly Conservative MP's who voted for it ? And Labour MP's who voted against it, although I still don't have a scoobies where they stand on Brexit ?

I'm confused , did leaver or remainer MP's vote against the WA ?

To get a majority of 230 must have been both remain and leave MPs.

And Labour MP's who voted against it, although I still don't have a scoobies where they stand on Brexit

Labour voted against everything that Conservatives suggested in hope they would force a general election. However, the results of the EU election on 23 May 2019 made labour and conservative realize that Brexit was what people wanted. Farage's Brexit Party came top with 31%.

If there was a General Election I would bet on a coalition of Brexit and Conservative Party being the outcome.

have we got a nice list of upsides yet?

I think @TheElementsSong aptly described it as "Reasons". 😂