Please can someone tell me the upsides of Brexit

[CleopatrasMum]

Apparently Dominic Raab has said there are many upsides of Brexit. The article in the Guardian that I read this in gave no details of what Raab (presumably) went on to say those upsides were.

Please can someone explain them to me?

Link to article here for what it's worth:

Raab says Brexit will bring 'huge series of upsides' for UK trade

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/raab-says-brexit-will-bring-huge-series-of-upsides-for-uk-trade?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Part of me wants to see the break up of the UK as Cameron, May's and Johnson's legacy, but it will be everyone else's fault but theirs.

I don't want to see violence again in NI - the GFA to my mind was a huge achievement which I thought impossible, and for the sorry crowd mentioned above to throw it away is almost criminal IMO.

Your logic is utter bullshit though. I don't believe you live in Ireland either

Never said I live in Ireland

Never said I live in Ireland

Not on this thread. On another you said exactly that in reply to @bellinisurge.

At 7.45 this morning. So less than two hours ago!

Algeria had been a part of France and gained Independence. Some of us are old enough to remember the bloody war which happened before this was achieved. The French Island also became independent.

Interestingly Greenland is still part of the Kingdom of Denmark, but for one country with no land borders, a population of 50,000 and one major industry to leave, is not like the UK leaving. Even then it took the Greenlanders 3 years to negotiate.

I agree, why waste time on this troll, who I suspect lives in the USA?

The backstop was agreed by all parties

So how come UK is still in the EU as leave date was extended to 31 Oct 2019 because WA rejected three times.

At 7.45 this morning. So less than two hours ago!

R epublic

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We can negotiate in the same way as North Korea and Iran can negotiate with a huge military power like the US. No deal is far more painful to the ‘lesser’ nation but painful enough to the ‘greater’ power that the ‘lesser’ power does have leverage

That is one of the more unbelievable statements i've read over the last 3 years anywhere.
European countries are supposed to be our allies, you don't need to go back very far in history for what you are suggesting, to have been considered an act of war.
Do you really want our relationship with European countries to be that of Iran or NK, perhaps BJ could threaten to set Europe on fire? or to anillate Paris or Berlin?

If we leave with no-deal (entirely our fault - leaving is voluntary as is the date) which will cause economic damage to both sides, do you really think that is going to make negotiating any future deal easier or harder?

There is the thought doing the rounds that Brexit will cause the EU and the UK to part permanently, just as we keep getting told 90% of growth is outside of the EU, so the EU might decide that trading with UK isn't necessary.

but for one country with no land borders, a population of 50,000 and one major industry to leave, is not like the UK leaving

Exactly EU is no worse off by Greenland leaving. Hence EU happy for them to go. UK is third largest EU donor. Hence EU does not want UK to go. All comes down to money. Naff all to do with anything else.

NosyBe2006 bullshit.

The luxury car brands such as BMW and Mercedes-Benz will be badly hit as there are plenty of alternatives

True. Might explain why Frau Merkel does not want UK to leave EU?

If we leave with no-deal (entirely our fault - leaving is voluntary as is the date)

Article 50 recognizes the possibility of no deal. If EU did not allow members to leave at all that is hardly a democratic union.

Trade with EU is not the big deal for UK that it once was. In 2006 UK had a trade surplus with EU, but it has been in decline ever since. UK trade with EU is now in deficit which is increasing. Whereas trade with Non EU produces a trade surplus.

It took 6 years of negotiations before Greenland left the EEC, still maintained close economic relationship with europe.

Fail.

Trade with EU is not the big deal for UK that it once was.

If you believe that you’ll believe anything.

Jasjas,

Of course the EU are our ‘allies’. However there are 27 countries, some more allied than others. In any event, we are negotiating. The meaning of this is we have some aligned objectives, some differing ones. We agree on the aligned ones and compromise over the differences, with both sides having ‘red lines’.

Negotiations also imply knowing your own and the other side’s strengths and weaknesses.

And, ultimately, we have to agree a deal that is acceptable to the UK parliament and the EU decision making bodies. This will be damned hard but pretending this is not the process is just disingenuous.

@NosyBe2006 - f you are referring to the blunder EU have made over Article 50 by not having special provision for GFA I think you are correct

You're taking nonsense. There is nothing in A50 that prevents any country leaving. Ireland and the UK could both easily leave in a way that allows them to continue with their obligations under the GFA. Remaining in the CU and SM do that. If I recall correctly, pre 2016, the version of brexit being discussed generally included that anyway.

The issue is Theresa May introduced a load of red lines that contravened the UK's obligations under the GFA.

The backstop means that is leaving depends, ultimately, on the EU allowing us to leave.

No. The withdrawal agreement has good faith and independant
arbitration clauses. These mean that if the EU negotiates in bad faith the WA can be suspended. Of course if the UK negotiates in bad faith the EU can hold us to the agreement and 'not let us leave' or more likely impose financial penalties - but thats down to us.

In any event, we are negotiating. The meaning of this is we have some aligned objectives, some differing ones. We agree on the aligned ones and compromise over the differences, with both sides having ‘red lines’

Having a series of red lines that May had, meant any negotiations would be limited.
Without these, we could have left the EU and had an agreement similar (but unique to the UK) to EEA/EFTA, we would have fulfilled the requirements of the referendum, without too much damage.

Instead, May pandered to her parties demands and we are now facing economic hardship, a chaotic brexit and damaging the fragile peace in NI.
On top of that, we are going to threaten and try and ruin european economies too, anyone who thinks uk/european relationships (on a country by country basis) will survive brexit is wrong, neither side is going to forgive the other.

And Greenland had one issue only to discuss regarding the negotiations:

Fishing.

Re nationalising the railways etc. Apparently there is a clause in the Lisbon treaty that prevents re-nationalisation of services such as railways that connect with the EU. This comes from a friend who is high up in unions etc & has in the past worked with Corbyn who he loves. I looked into it & it seems legit.

Though I'm not sure I can see them getting their act together quickly to renationalise anything as there will be so much unpicking to do, so where as I can see it is a benefit, it's not one that comes close to outweighing the negatives & would likely be a mute point anyway

but about understanding the huge benefits the UK market brings to the EU.
especially Germany
3.6% of German imports and 6.6% of exports are from/to the UK.

Over 46% of our trade is with the EU. 4-6% of EU trade is with the UK -
What kind of crap negotiating hand is that?

"True. Might explain why Frau Merkel does not want UK to leave EU?"

More bullshit. She respects our decision. Yes, we are a big market for German cars but not the only one. And if our future is so fucking glorious we will all be driving Mercedes Benz in 2020.😂

It removes another layer of governance and allows the economic model to shrink, arguably making it faster to respond to change and more flexible. I think this is pretty much the left’s argument in favour of leaving the EU.

Trade with EU is not the big deal for UK that it once was

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a3660513-Please-can-someone-tell-me-the-upsides-of-Brexit?msgid=89245318#

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

I find it interesting that one would present a graph showing data only to 2015 (plus a highly questionable extrapolation) when more recent data is available and that extrapolation is no longer valid. The EU share of the UK's trade has risen since 2015.