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Brexit

Westminstenders: Promises, promises

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/08/2019 23:26

Today polling showed that there was a majority in Scotland who support Independence. The 'Boris Bounce' really isn't universal. And this is a firm sign all is not well.

There is talk tonight that Johnson is planning to stay on as PM even if he loses a vote of no confidence in order to force No Deal through and prevent a government of national unity. Instead he would call a 'people v politicians' general election to be held shortly after we'd left the EU.

Johnson's willingness to defy parliament should not be discounted and should be taken seriously. Its highly likely in one way or another. No deal is technically illegal, but its also the default. This does not seem to be fully recognised by remainers. But this is a man who lied and continued to lie. And there is every sign that he would be willing to cause some sort of constitutional crisis. Especially if he really is like Trump. This is what authoritarians do - defy convention and rip up the rule book - because the powers that are suppose to hold them to account are too weak to hold them to account. Something that Johnson has already proved time and again. He has no respect for others.

All the signs are Johnson is in fully into campaigning for a GE already. He's touring the country and ignoring Europe. He's offering money for the NHS - its open to debate whether this is new money - the optics on this are all down to what you want to believe. Those who want Johnson will believe the promise; those who don't won't.

The penny hasn't fully dropped in parliament. There is talk of a vote of no confidence being called by Labour 'at the earliest opportunity' in September. The reality is its too little too late and is unlikely to work to have the desired effect and inside will play right into Johnson's plan. The failure of the Opposition to spot what he was likely to do, has been the story of the last 3 years, where Remainers have been reactionary and unable to anticipate what would happen next. Their lack of imagination and inability to look beyond their own rhetoric has been their undoing and may cost us all in the long run.

Meanwhile in Brussels, the EU unlike our Parliament have recognised the inevitability of no deal and if Johnson wants no deal there is no way to stop it. And that he has no inclination whatsoever to negotiate.

The expectation is still that the EU will have the backstop and the Brexit Bill of £39 billion as the requirement for the opening of trade talks if we no deal.

Which leaves up shit creek.

At the same time the new trade minister Liz Truss is full on libertarian and talking to the US with this in mind.

That would mean a bonfire of rights and standards which will horrify many. That means goodbye to workers rights, food standards and data protection.

The tech giants have the ears of Washington so British ideas of a tax on them are being seen as a block on a US trade deal.

It comes as the UK has joined a US coalition to protect ships in the Gulf - something we were originally given a snub against, and led to Jeremy Hunt saying we would join a European led force. Its not clear what, who or how the US uturn has come about...

Meanwhile our summer holidays are all getting more expensive... and this is just the start of it.

This is real. This isn't a bluff.

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Motheroffourdragons · 10/08/2019 12:16

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/08/2019 13:34

Voting Labour would reward Corbyn for blocking earlier attempts at PV,
rewards him for pursuing a Lexit policy,
rewards Labour for tolerating this contempt to the over 70% of Labour voters who are Remainers

.... and will certainly be counted by Brexiters as voting for Brexit

I would not vote Labour, even to keep out a Leave Tory,
unless at the very least Labour change their policy now and work with other parties to avoid No Deal without iffing & butting
So there would have to be no question of my vote counting as supporting, or even accepting, Brexit

However, Labour are still putting party & Corbyn's ego before country and their voters

I would vote instead for any Remain party
In Scotland, SNP would be an easy choice in most seats, so moving to Scotland would solve some dilemmas !

Whatever changed Labour & Tory official policy, I would vote for an individual Tory Remainer rebel (who is not deselected before the GE)
rather than for one of the Leave-supporting Labour MPs / candidates

tobee · 10/08/2019 13:47

Hoping everyone on here is keeping safe with the wind 💨 and rain ☔️ now causing flooding:-

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/08/2019 13:50

Labour change their policy now and work with other parties to avoid No Deal without iffing & butting

Said they would work with the SNP, they also tried to work with TM, I think he's damned if he does damned if he doesnt tbh

So far LibDems have ruled out working with Corbyns Labour and SNP I'm wondering how commited are they to stopping Brexit they havent ruled out working with the Tories and if you want to fall for the Tory narrative of '80% of people voted for Brexit' up to you but letting the Tories to continue the narrative helps no 1, not gonna debate it tho I'm aware Corbyn is the son of satan for whatever reason you all have but so far he seems to be actively trying to stop no deal

jasjas1973 · 10/08/2019 14:00

I thought Jo Swinson ruled out specifically working with Corbyn? not labour, likewise would work with Con remain MPs (precious few)

Lab/JC have only themselves to blame for their decline and LDs revival, their ambiguity on Brexit has been awful, no one understood what the Fxxx they stood for, even now, possibly weeks away, they have no GE brexit policy.

However, whatever Labours policy,, we'd still be where we are now, they aren't power and Con/DUP can do as they wish.

tobee · 10/08/2019 14:02

Do you think Jo Swinson has been hasty there?

pamperramper · 10/08/2019 14:02

Has anyone seen the film "Unbreakable"?
The anti-hero creates a hero so that he can then defeat him. Is BJ now creating a major national crisis so that he can put himself across as the new Churchill?

pamperramper · 10/08/2019 14:03

He is using Nazi propaganda methods to pretend to be Churchill.

tobee · 10/08/2019 14:04

He's deluded

pamperramper · 10/08/2019 14:04

Has anyone read his biography of Churchill?

Violetparis · 10/08/2019 14:08

I think Jo Swinson is hoping that by ruling out working with Corbyn the Lib Dems will attract more Tory Remainers. So, party and power before stopping no deal.

pamperramper · 10/08/2019 14:10

It's called "How One Man Made History ". Fuck.

Hazardtired · 10/08/2019 14:10

Churchill's grandson: No-deal Brexit would be UK's worst crisis since 1940

news.sky.com/story/churchills-grandson-brexit-is-uks-worst-crisis-since-1940-11779060

Asked about comparisons between Mr Johnson and Winston Churchill, he said: "I don't buy the theory that Boris is masquerading as Churchill.

"I think he admires my grandfather greatly and that he sees the great lessons to be learned from Churchill's life.

"I didn't vote for Boris and I'm not pleased with Boris, but I absolve him of that particular charge.

"The charge I do not absolve him from is wanting to have a no-deal Brexit, which I think would be a disaster for my country."

tobee · 10/08/2019 14:17

I have the Roy Jenkins biog

jasjas1973 · 10/08/2019 14:18

So, party and power before stopping no deal

The more tories/MPs she attracts, the more likely brexit won't happen.

Violetparis · 10/08/2019 14:26

I think any politician serious about stopping no deal should not be ruling anything out at this late stage. If we leave in October without a deal because some politicians on the remain side wouldn't compromise or work together I will blame them as much as the ERG lot.

tobee · 10/08/2019 14:32

I would have thought trying to get a cross party consensus re Brexit would be easier than relying on MPs crossing the floor with what that entails constituency wise. For eg I live in a remain area with a Tory remain MP.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/08/2019 14:36

A cross party consensus - that produces an HoC majority - requires Tory MPs to cross the floor,
since the Tory party itself and its policies have been taken over by Brexiters

To be fair, that is just reflecting the over 70% of Tory voters who are Brexiters, mostly No Dealers

BigChocFrenzy · 10/08/2019 14:39

So although Brexit is almost entirely a Tory party and hard right project,

if we are to be saved from No Deal, it will almost certainly only be possible if individual Tories put country before party and career

tobee · 10/08/2019 14:42

Let's see if they put their money where the mouth is.

I feel like I've been thinking that for ages. It's torturous.

QueenOfThorns · 10/08/2019 14:43

Voting Labour ... will certainly be counted by Brexiters as voting for Brexit

I do understand where you’re coming from, BCF, but I’m thinking in a post-no deal election, the issue of voting for Brexit would be over. If I had to choose between the Tories and Labour to try to salvage the situation, I know whose version of putting the country back together I would prefer. So voting to punish Labour at that point seems a little bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Violetparis · 10/08/2019 14:47

The remain side also need to agree very quickly on what a People's Vote actually means, what would be the leave option on the ballot ? would no deal be an option ? will there be a threshold ? etc. I'm fed up with PV campaigners calling for a vote without any agreement or detail of what this would entail. If there is an election this will be scrutinised as it should be and if there is no clarity the campaign will fall apart. If remain politicians can't get their act together then it's a hard brexit.

prettybird · 10/08/2019 14:52

While yesterday's power cuts weren't ultimately too serious (and we weren't affected in Scotland Wink), so this meme is amusing, they do illustrate the vulnerability to power outages.

I will be buying a crank up/solar radio/charger/torch - and probably one for ds away at Uni too.

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
BigChocFrenzy · 10/08/2019 14:59

Queen That is exactly what Lexiters are cynically counting on:

that after they have No Deal Brexit, Labour Remainers will just suck it up, forgive Labour and vote for them as if nothing happened

So that rewards betrayal of over 70% of their voters, control by the small Lexiter clique around Corbyn.

We shouldn't reward such cynicism

Anyway, Labour Remainers may still decide to vote for those who deliberately piss all over them,
but few centrists will again for many years

So that fucks Labour's chances of winning power for a generation, as the votes of The Faithful alone aren't enough in a country that leans right of centre

BigChocFrenzy · 10/08/2019 15:02

pretty 😂😂