Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Promises, promises

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/08/2019 23:26

Today polling showed that there was a majority in Scotland who support Independence. The 'Boris Bounce' really isn't universal. And this is a firm sign all is not well.

There is talk tonight that Johnson is planning to stay on as PM even if he loses a vote of no confidence in order to force No Deal through and prevent a government of national unity. Instead he would call a 'people v politicians' general election to be held shortly after we'd left the EU.

Johnson's willingness to defy parliament should not be discounted and should be taken seriously. Its highly likely in one way or another. No deal is technically illegal, but its also the default. This does not seem to be fully recognised by remainers. But this is a man who lied and continued to lie. And there is every sign that he would be willing to cause some sort of constitutional crisis. Especially if he really is like Trump. This is what authoritarians do - defy convention and rip up the rule book - because the powers that are suppose to hold them to account are too weak to hold them to account. Something that Johnson has already proved time and again. He has no respect for others.

All the signs are Johnson is in fully into campaigning for a GE already. He's touring the country and ignoring Europe. He's offering money for the NHS - its open to debate whether this is new money - the optics on this are all down to what you want to believe. Those who want Johnson will believe the promise; those who don't won't.

The penny hasn't fully dropped in parliament. There is talk of a vote of no confidence being called by Labour 'at the earliest opportunity' in September. The reality is its too little too late and is unlikely to work to have the desired effect and inside will play right into Johnson's plan. The failure of the Opposition to spot what he was likely to do, has been the story of the last 3 years, where Remainers have been reactionary and unable to anticipate what would happen next. Their lack of imagination and inability to look beyond their own rhetoric has been their undoing and may cost us all in the long run.

Meanwhile in Brussels, the EU unlike our Parliament have recognised the inevitability of no deal and if Johnson wants no deal there is no way to stop it. And that he has no inclination whatsoever to negotiate.

The expectation is still that the EU will have the backstop and the Brexit Bill of £39 billion as the requirement for the opening of trade talks if we no deal.

Which leaves up shit creek.

At the same time the new trade minister Liz Truss is full on libertarian and talking to the US with this in mind.

That would mean a bonfire of rights and standards which will horrify many. That means goodbye to workers rights, food standards and data protection.

The tech giants have the ears of Washington so British ideas of a tax on them are being seen as a block on a US trade deal.

It comes as the UK has joined a US coalition to protect ships in the Gulf - something we were originally given a snub against, and led to Jeremy Hunt saying we would join a European led force. Its not clear what, who or how the US uturn has come about...

Meanwhile our summer holidays are all getting more expensive... and this is just the start of it.

This is real. This isn't a bluff.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
NoWordForFluffy · 08/08/2019 07:27

I saw that, Peregrina. It's our Oz-residing leave voter perpetuating that myth again!

So what is it that's needed to reform education in the future? Can critical thinking be taught or is it a natural skill which you either have or you don't? I find it hard to understand why people are unwilling to assess all available evidence, preferring to dismiss it as lies / 'Project Fear'.

I hate feeling this powerless.

wheresmymojo · 08/08/2019 07:33

Can you believe that this has been posted in one of the Conservative groups with a few people backing bringing back personal ownership of handguns...

I quote: "Big up nige. Very brave thing to say when the general public have no idea on our own gun laws and the benefits of an armed populace"

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
NoWordForFluffy · 08/08/2019 07:37

He's a fucking liability.

Hoooo · 08/08/2019 07:38

Biology is not bigotry.

We need experts.

Facts matter.

^ all of the above have now been hijacked by certain groups and are no longer true.

except they are

bellinisurge · 08/08/2019 07:40

The gun thing is just wank material. They are so desperate to be Americans. Who also have a range of views on gun ownership. They haven't twigged that people who disagree with them or that they just dislike because of their religion or the colour of their skin would also be entitled to hand guns under such a rule change. Just what the tense national situation needs. Armed knobheads.

TheElementsSong · 08/08/2019 07:45

If the high priests of the Brexit religion now say that they are required to love mass-ownership of AK-47s, it'll be embraced by the more fervent Leavers, just like chlorinated chicken, dismantling of the NHS and No Deal Crash Out (and furthermore, that they always wanted those things back in 2016).

NoWordForFluffy · 08/08/2019 07:51

...and furthermore, that they always wanted those things back in 2016).

It's this rewriting of history which annoys me the most. The leave campaign promised there would be a deal before leaving. That is fact. Nobody voted for no deal as it was not an option. The options were remain or leave with a deal. I'm pretty sure there's a chunk of leave voters who'd rather remain than leave with no deal. There is no electoral mandate for no deal (so it's not the fucking will of the people to crash out).

Makiwa · 08/08/2019 08:03

Lurker here who would like to thank you all for your informed discussion. I live in France and have found this thread so helpful in getting an idea of the situation in the UK.

This video popped up on FB from a school friend. It's a speech by Germany's far right leader which my friend (who doesn't live in the EU) described as excellent. I would appreciate your thoughts.

bellinisurge · 08/08/2019 08:11

This clip has been on here before @Makiwa . The far right's trick is to appear reasonable and sucker people in.

Makiwa · 08/08/2019 08:20

Yes, that's exactly my reaction to the speech. I found it quite strange that a perfectly reasonable person would blindly share the video on social media whilst declaring the argument 'excellent'. We both lived under a dictator in Africa and am surprised that she views this speech as such.

prettybird · 08/08/2019 08:34

This clip from the amazingly prescient Years and Years is of Muriel (the grandmother) pointing out how and why the descent into hell situation they were in was/is your fault, all our faults SadShock

The positive (spoiler alert Wink) is that as a result, the family and friends (and others) do successfully rise up and overthrow the Farage lookalike the government.

But even after the positive bit, the series does end with a warning that it is still too easy for the jokers, the smilers, the funny guy in a bow tie to con a public about their true objectives Sad - and that there is very probably one around the corner this was aired before BlowJob became PM Hmm

Basilpots · 08/08/2019 08:40

Morning all I caught the end of a discussion on 5live yesterday about the revelation that of the 54 million adults in U.K only 57% pay income tax. The comment which stood out to me was the suggestion that anyone who doesn’t pay income tax should have the vote taken away from then.

I am hoping not all opinions were along those lines.

I can’t decide thoughts such as that have always been there but not so readily admitted to publicly, or am I just taking more notice because of the current state the country has got itself into.

RedToothBrush · 08/08/2019 08:48

The comment which stood out to me was the suggestion that anyone who doesn’t pay income tax should have the vote taken away from then.

You mean like stay at home mums?

OP posts:
Motherof3Dragons · 08/08/2019 08:53

@Makiwa Ms Weidels party, the AfD is very close to turn into the new Nazi party in Germany. Naturally they don’t like the EU and „open borders“. You know, back in the early 1930’s, a man named Hitler had some „excellent arguments“ in his speeches as well - and we all know how that turned out, don‘t we?

Basilpots · 08/08/2019 08:57

Yes Red plus students, part time workers, retirees as well as low paid workers not just the unemployed which I suspect is what they were hinting at.

prettybird · 08/08/2019 08:57

They might not pay income tax but everyone pays VAT Confused If they have insurance, they pay insurance tax. If they have a car (unless it is electric, classic? or very low emission), they pay VED. If they buy fuel, they pay duty as well as VAT. If they buy anything, they're buying from companies that pay corporation tax (well, most of them Hmm). If the company they're buying from operates from any bricks & mortar estate, they'll be paying prices that have business rates factored into the price. If they have a home, their house/flat will be subject to council tax (although if they're genuinely very poor/disabled, they might be exempt).

Income tax is only one element of a government's income Confused

(I know you weren't agreeing with the argument: I'm just supporting your point with additional examples to demonstrate how fallacious it is Shock)

Makiwa · 08/08/2019 09:03

Motherof3Dragons yes indeed. Perhaps my friend who lives on an island in the Indian Ocean thinks that they won't be affected by this turning tide.

Thank you for the clip Prettybird. I haven't seen Years and Years but it comes up periodically in your discussions so shall seek it out when able to.

Basilpots · 08/08/2019 09:08

I know Pretty I am listening back to the whole conversation to give a bit more perspective. Tax comes in many forms. Hate the idea that ‘the vote’ should be seen as a reward rather than a basic right.

woman19 · 08/08/2019 09:33

anyone who doesn’t pay income tax should have the vote taken away from then
A sort of poll tax?

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 08/08/2019 09:36

There’s no way the government would allow only income tax payers to vote.

Imagine what would happen to the Tory vote of all those retirees couldn’t vote anymore.

Ellie56 · 08/08/2019 09:41

People who don't pay income tax should have the vote taken away from them. Shock

Dear God what is happening to this country?

DGRossetti · 08/08/2019 09:43

The Americans have a thing about voting:

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION

They started a revolution to make their point.

DGRossetti · 08/08/2019 09:47

.

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
DGRossetti · 08/08/2019 09:50

There’s no way the government would allow only income tax payers to vote. Imagine what would happen to the Tory vote of all those retirees couldn’t vote anymore.

Where is your imagination ? No problem is insurmountable when Brexit is possible.

I give you drum roll

The Household Vote

Each household gets one vote - which obviously only the man can cast - double checked at polling time with special pencils that can only be held with a penis.

You remainers will never get anywhere with your defeatist naivety.

woman19 · 08/08/2019 09:51

The Americans have a thing about voting
until the hanging chads.....

Arguably, access to right of American vote is now firmly premised on skin colour.

The 'UK' vote is premised on passport colour/origin and the biological sex of the holder. (what's the sex of most EU and non EU SAHM and carers who have been denied right to remain, and voting rights for last 5 years?)