Germany's economy in freefall

[urbanlife]

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/25/german-economy-free-fall-exhausted-draghi-loses-magic/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

So leaving on WTO terms looks like a very sound choice. Germany props up the entire EU superstate pretty much.

I for one am feeling much more optimistic by the day.

And, and, why the fuck are we doing all this? It is madness and we need to stop it.

Thing is - I can't see a 'possible' second referendum being any different from the last; European news this week;

25 July 2019 Turkey Threatens to Suspend EU Migrant Deal Due to Lack of Visa-free Travel to EU

"The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Çavuşoğlu has threatened that Turkey will suspend the migrant deal reached with the EU in 2016, until the latter decides to grant Turkish passport holders with visa-free access to the Schengen countries."

"During an interview with a Turkish medium earlier this week, Minister Çavuşoğlu said that the migration agreement would be suspended, only to come into effect again when a visa liberalization agreement is reached with the EU."

“We will not wait at the EU’s door.The readmission agreement and visa-free deal will be put into effect at the same time,” he said."

"The EU signed the readmission deal on migration with Turkey in 2016 as a solution to the number of migrants that flooded Europe at the time, using Turkey as their main route.Aside from roughly six billion euros that the EU allocated to Turkey, the block also agreed to lessen visa restrictions for Turkish citizens."

www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/turkey-threatens-to-suspend-eu-migrant-deal-due-to-lack-of-visa-free-travel-to-eu/

Britain would lose its EU budget rebate were it to decide to cancel Brexit and stay in the bloc, the European Commission’s budget chief has said.

"Günther Oettinger told reporters in Brussels that such a rebate was “no longer appropriate” in a family of nations."

"Describing Britain’s €6.2 billion (£4.9 billion) cashback as “the mother of all rebates” Mr Oettinger said the payment would still be gradually be reduced to zero in stages."

“In the improbable but pleasant case that the UK would remain–I would certainly find that to be absolutely fabulous but I can’t imagine it–in that instance, then the gradual exit from the rebate would still be kept.I think it is something which is no longer appropriate in a family of 27,” Mr Oettinger said."

"Britain’s rebate, which has been in effect since 1985, reduces the country’s contribution to the EU budget by around two-thirds of what it would otherwise be."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-budget-rebate-gunther-oetinger-second-referendum-remain-a8580616.html

If only life saving medicines are available and people who take preventative medicines end up in hospital on the life saving medicines has that influx been taken into account?

if they have only stockpiled the usual amounts of oxygen, breathing tubes, feeds, feeding tubes, adrenaline and steroids (steroids help so many things and are cheap so get thrown at EVERYTHING) then there wont be enough to go round.

Has the influx been taken into account?

Can I see the list of stocks?

universities in the UK are committed to continuing their deep-rooted and often ground-breaking academic collaborations with German and European academic institutions and companies”.

Doesn't matter how committed they are if they are no longer eligible to work on Horizon Europe.

Funnily enough Jason I was just thinking the same thing...

Why are we doing this?! Doesn't it seem like a bad idea?

I would like to see a list of reasons as to why we are doing this as well as the list of stockpiled medicines.

I would also like to see a flow chart balancing the probable shit reasons why we are doing this against the consequences of doing this and then i would like to put that flow chart to the people and ask them I they are that mean and cruel and stupid.

It's not just remainers who need meds.

Many of us on here with chronic conditions have been trying to obtain a buffer of meds for at least the last 6 months. GPs will not allow people to order more than they should need so it's been a case of ordering a week early to allow a small buffer to be built up without causing questions to be asked. I have a months worth of extra medication except for dihydrocodeine as I can't get this more often than once a month and use my full daily quota every day. Because it's an opiate I can't stockpile this therefore I've bought over the counter cocodamol as an emergency. This will not deal with my pain effectively but is better than just paracetamol. I can't take ibuprofen or other NSAIDs due to chronic gastritis/GORD. Thank god I don't have insulin diabetes as it's impossible to stockpile insulin and we don't make it in this country. People like me will suffer due to lack of medication but those with insulin dependent diabetes are at risk of death. But hey the I'm alright jacks don't give a shit.

Clav,
Link you gave about UK-DE research collaboration is about past achievements & existing relationships under status quo conditions. I thought Brexiters hated status quo situations.

Student will probably end up as expert at WHO/EU-CDC or UNHCR. She could have considered PHE, but doesn't feel it's good bet for her.

Engaging this thread does remind me so much of the advice in this article, about how misinformation promoters manage to seize attention.

Directly confronting vaccine skeptics enables bots to legitimize the vaccine debate.

Whose the vaccine sceptic in this?

Leaving is in action, we do nothing it happens and it is the establishment that is set into play. So yes by debating with remainers leavers are giving us credence and spreading the message. Debating leavers is fine because it is set in motion it will happen regardless.

So leavers where is the list, the other list and my flow chart?

bercrow ❤ Fanbloodytastic stockpiling and obvs sorry you even have to think of it.

Going back as far as Harold Wilson virtually every UK PM, except John Major, was Oxford educated.

Margaret Thatcher may have been Oxford educated but she didn’t come from a privileged background.

Yes, Clavinova - my son has worked abroad and yes I know first hand about researchers going to and fro. But at present it's relatively easy - in future it may not be.

In the scientific area I was working in before I retired, I knew one person take almost a year to take up his posting in Australia because of interviewing at distance and then waiting for the visa to come through. But you know best, because you have cut and paste from this that and the other, and some of us can tell you first hand so we can't possibly know.

Margaret Thatcher may have been Oxford educated but she didn’t come from a privileged background.

She wasn't from a poor background either. Her father owned a shop and employed staff, so were fairly average middle class. Jacob Rees-Mogg though would look down at her because her father was Trade.

Jacob Rees-Mogg though would look down at her because her father was Trade.

My understanding is that many upper class aristocratic people would look down on Jacob Rees-Mogg because of his catholicism?

Peregrina
Yes, Clavinova - my son has worked abroad and yes I know first hand about researchers going to and fro. But at present it's relatively easy - in future it may not be.

That was my point though - you were saying that the researchers had been driven out because of Brexit.

"My understanding is that many upper class aristocratic people would look down on Jacob Rees-Mogg because of his catholicism?"
The contrary, actually.

@Clavinova - That was my point though - you were saying that the researchers had been driven out because of Brexit.

Your "point" does not refute @Peregrina 's point. Researchers are currently mobile due to EU membership. Brexit has created uncertainty and, in some locations, an unwelcome climate. Researchers who have previously moved to the UK due to EU freedom are now choosing to leave. Others are choosing locations other than the UK to move to.

UK researchers may also be reluctant to move due to lack of certainty over their right to remain and EU institutions may be reluctant to employ UK researchers due to the uncertainty. I will include the caveat here that this last point is supposition rather than knowledge as I am not involved in any funded research projects. I do know we currently have no UK researchers in the research centre affiliated with the department I work in but that isn't indicative of anything.

Engaging this thread does remind me so much of theadvice in this article, about how misinformation promoters manage to seize attention.

Directly confronting vaccine skeptics enables bots to legitimize the vaccine debate

I agree. You get this sort of targeted posting on the Feminist boards quite often - engaging only serves to keep inflammatory threads on active. The best answer is tumbleweed so I will flounce now.

That was my point though - you were saying that the researchers had been driven out because of Brexit.

While you were trying to be oh so clever with your cut and paste examples, you missed the point. I agree I should have spelt it out simply - these people have gone early. They are very unlikely to come back. If for their next step up in their work the choice is going to a lab in Germany or France with no more formality than passing the interview, or applying for a job in England and then having to obtain a visa, possibly having to satisfy an immigration quota and being refused and having to apply again at more expense, who is going to bother?

My DS was told that those who were in post before 29th March, the original Brexit deadline, would have their right to stay honoured. Who knows what it will be like for those who might have been looking to take up a post elsewhere in the EU in the next couple of years?

But please don't allow real examples to trump your cut and paste examples.

Yeah the best medicine to inflammatory threads is tumbleweeds because when it's post no deal brexit and your arthritic knee is inflamed you'll rub a tumbleweed on it and be cured.

Facts

Researchers who have previously moved to the UK due to EU freedom are now choosing to leave.

Anecdotal evidence.

I saw some stats recently that showed the percentage of EU doctors in the UK is roughly the same as it was before the referendum (not true of nurses, although other factors at play here: language test introduced in 2016, Spain's improved economy, unattractive pay/hours.)

Others are choosing locations other than the UK to move to.
Again, anecdotal - and that doesn't mean they can't be replaced with equally suitable candidates.

Anecdotal data can point to trends.

As for suitable candidates - where are they though? If people report that a vacancy has been left unfulfilled because no suitable candidates came forward, Clavinova will cut and paste an example to try to prove that in one department they were lucky and had a choice of candidates.

The UK has a shortage of drs with specialisms (so doctor +++ of you like) and has for a few years. Has brexit put off potential EU nationals from applying for the roles that have been left empty for a long time?

Please someone cut and paste something proving EU doctors with specialisms have not been out off applying for roles here.

Anecdotal data can point to trends.

Trends of a 'remainer plot' by the media?

There was a report earlier this year (possibly the Guardian) - a scientist who was supposedly leaving Edinburgh University because of Brexit - and relocating to Germany. I looked her up (German website) - she had won a research grant that hadn't previously been open to scientists outside of Germany, with an Institute she had a long association with - and the grant came with 'personal prize money' of over £70,000 - would you turn that opportunity down?

There was also the Polish singer who felt unwelcome in the UK (she was promoting her 'Brexit song') - she gave a different interview to a music platform - her 'real' reason for moving back to Poland was because she had met the 'love of her life' on the German/Polish border - he's German.

Brexit is going to be so absolutely wonderful, so why didn't the Polish singer want to bring her German boyfriend here and get him to encourage his friends to come too? Give us a hundred examples Clavinova and we might begin to believe your arguments.

The UK has a shortage of drs with specialisms (so doctor +++ of you like) and has for a few years. Has brexit put off potential EU nationals from applying for the roles that have been left empty for a long time?

We've had a shortage of all kinds of doctors for decades. It's nothing new. The real travesty is that successive governments have not resourced anywhere near enough training places, not helped by medical unions objecting to proposed increases in training places. There's no shortage of students - some medical schools have been reporting courses oversubscribed by a factor of 10 (from people meeting their minimum requirements) hence why they select on the basis of who's been digging wells in Africa or climbing the Himalayas or doing 100 hours of unpaid work per week in local care homes.