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Brexit

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Original poster

Germany's economy in freefall

667 replies

urbanlife · 26/07/2019 06:58

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/25/german-economy-free-fall-exhausted-draghi-loses-magic/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

So leaving on WTO terms looks like a very sound choice. Germany props up the entire EU superstate pretty much.

I for one am feeling much more optimistic by the day.

OP posts:
dollarsandpounds · 27/07/2019 06:30

sensible leave chat
Oxymoron.

There is no positive case to remain, I have still never heard of a single one beyond second homes and extended student gap years ( that no one takes anymore anyway) confused Even in all these years they still haven’t even managed a positive case.

Of course you know very well that this statement is purposefully misleading and 'gas lighting aka propaganda.

Boris will fix this.
Like Theresa May did? Sure! Self-important privileged muppet that he is, I wish him the best of luck, he'll need.

I personally am not too unhappy that Boris is PM though. I wouldn't be too surprised if he pulled the wool over your eyes and 'delivered' us the softest of sweet kitten Brexits. Here is to hope!

bellinisurge · 27/07/2019 07:19

"Brexit will result in NI and Scotland conquering England and revenge has been achieved (Lots of flag waving)"

What a load of bollocks.

Not seen one suggestion for "alternative arrangements" other than my own "Border in the sea/NI as a special economic zone " . Which apparently constitutes unreasonable "Remoanerness".
I don't BeLeave Johnson is interested in anything other than whipping up Leave supporters into an anti-everyone frenzy to take back tbe people the Tories are losing to tbe Brexit Party. And to lure Labour BeLeavers into trusting him on Brexit more than Corbyn because, frankly, fuck knows what Labour's position is.
He can justify a general election on that basis and pretend he's not begging for another extension when he calls one.
Just in case people have forgotten, Parliament (at least tbe Commons) was elected by the UK electorate. It is only a Remoaner Parliament by virtue of the fact that UK citizens made it so through voting.

Jason118 · 27/07/2019 08:12

I'm afraid most of the deleted posts were me playing silly buggers - one too many whiskies BlushBlush

bellinisurge · 27/07/2019 08:31

You are normally so mild mannered @Jason118 . I'm the sweary one. Grin

Tullow2016 · 27/07/2019 08:33

It is only a Remoaner Parliament by virtue of the fact that UK citizens made it so through voting

People were asked to vote so they did. That the result is not what Cameron, or anyone else in government, wanted to hear does not change the result.

The NI only backstop seems to be the optimum solution at the moment. However, wording needs to be improved as the previous temporary backstop had the potential to be permanent.

Out of interest does anyone know how much duty could EU potentially lose due to uncontrolled movement of goods across the border? Struggling to find this information.

Alsohuman · 27/07/2019 08:35

There was no swearing @bellinisurge. It was all very polite and very entertaining. Anyone with a sense of humour would have responded in the same vein.

bellinisurge · 27/07/2019 08:42

It's not so much loss of duty, although that is a huge issue, it is loss of control over your economic area. The WTO requires it and both UK and the EU need to abide by this. Doesn't need to be checkpoints and border guards but there is no external border in the world that does it without some sort of infrastructure. Even an ANPR camera is infrastructure.
Not saying it is impossible but the backstop allows us time to Leave and sort out the border arrangement. Which is why an NI only backstop- only needed until an infrastructure free border can be arranged- is the answer.
But apparently that is a dreadful Remoaner plot to keep us all in the EU.
Basically, tbe EU should trust the UK because the UK can't trust the EU😂

ContinuityError · 27/07/2019 08:45

The NI only backstop seems to be the optimum solution at the moment.

The DUP won’t go for that, although it was the EU’s preferred solution. Allowing the whole of the UK to be in the backstop was a major concession, as it gives the UK access to the single market without being an EU member.

Mistigri · 27/07/2019 08:50

USA would not be at top of my list countries to form new deals. India and China are the markets to target as their combined population is 40% of the World Population.

There will be no trade deal with China - too risky for U.K., and low priority for China. India is a small economy relative to the big three.

Tullow2016 · 27/07/2019 09:04

Which is why an NI only backstop- only needed until an infrastructure free border can be arranged- is the answer

The unknown timescale seems to be the issue. However, in the absence of any proven technology I can't see how you could specify a time frame.

If Johnson follows through with a no deal exit from EU how does he comply with WTO rules on borders?

Alsohuman · 27/07/2019 09:04

We’re still sending aid to India.

Mistigri · 27/07/2019 09:17

If Johnson follows through with a no deal exit from EU how does he comply with WTO rules on borders?

The WTO doesn't have rules on borders: however, unless you import everything at zero tarifs without any quotas and with no quality standards, you need border controls. The WTO's purpose is to ensure those rules are applied fairly via the "most favoured nation" rule (unless you have an FTA, but if tarifs are zero and quotas infinite no country will have the slightest incentive to enter trade talks).

Tullow2016 · 27/07/2019 09:37

There will be no trade deal with China - too risky for U.K

Wonder if that is why Johnson was selected a opposed to Hunt as he has Chinese Wife?

Clavinova · 27/07/2019 09:48

We’re still sending aid to India.

God knows why - we are funding their space programme;

22 July 2019 India launches rocket to far side of moon

news.sky.com/story/india-launches-rocket-to-far-side-of-moon-just-days-after-aborted-take-off-11768270

Ivegotthree · 27/07/2019 09:53

No time to read the full thread but you're talking a lot of sense @urbanlife

Clavinova · 27/07/2019 09:55

It is only a Remoaner Parliament by virtue of the fact that UK citizens made it so through voting.

The Conservatives, DUP and Labour all campaigned on a 'leave' manifesto in 2017

Peregrina · 27/07/2019 10:22

The Conservatives, DUP and Labour all campaigned on a 'leave' manifesto in 2017

Then it can't by definition be a Remainer Parliament. I do wish you true BeLeavers would make up your minds which it is.

bellinisurge · 27/07/2019 10:25

"The Conservatives, DUP and Labour all campaigned on a 'leave' manifesto in 2017"
And agreement with WA would have made that happen.

Hazardtired · 27/07/2019 10:29

My labour MP is a remainer. 70% of labour members or voters (I share a lot of common ground with leavers as in im not great with facts Grin ) are remainers. Corbyn supports a people's vote to stop no deal and a Tory brexit. So voting labour was never a clear cut vote in support for leaving the EU. Also Corbyn's last -I don't know what to call it- rally he read from a script that was heavily remain as that is now the will of the people.

Clavinova · 27/07/2019 10:29

Then it can't by definition be a Remainer Parliament. I do wish you true BeLeavers would make up your minds which it is.

Some MPs lied - quite a few of them actually.

And agreement with WA would have made that happen.
Theresa May secured a 'remain' leaning WA.

Clavinova · 27/07/2019 10:33

Also Corbyn's last -I don't know what to call it- rally he read from a script that was heavily remain as that is now the will of the people.

All the recent polls that I have seen show 'remain' on 44%-48%.You can't overturn a referendum result on 'don't knows' and 'don't cares'.

Peregrina · 27/07/2019 10:33

Some MPs lied - quite a few of them actually.

Do tell, which ones?

Your pal the Prime Minister being a prime example of a liar.

Hazardtired · 27/07/2019 11:02

I don't see how your opinion clavinova over rides the facts that remaining in the EU is the will of the people. It's like you don't even care about democracy! It's unpatriotic. If you want to loath yourself then fine but some of us are positive and want to unite and be proud of Great Britain. Stop talking us down, we're stronger together, better united. I'd say you want brexit so we can be a world wide embarrassment just so you can feel better about yourself.

Clavinova · 27/07/2019 11:07

I don't see how your opinion clavinova over rides the facts that remaining in the EU is the will of the people.

It's obviously not the 'will of the people'- 'leave' won the referendum.

probstimeforanewname · 27/07/2019 11:10

There is no positive case to remain, I have still never heard of a single one beyond second homes and extended student gap years ( that no one takes anymore anyway) confused Even in all these years they still haven’t even managed a positive case

I admit at the time of the referendum one of the reasons I voted to remain was because of the Erasmus scheme - because I want my son to have the same opportunities that I had and to be able to study and work overseas if he wants to.

But more to the point, I want the employment rights we have in the UK to stay. I wouldn't trust a Tory government to keep any of them - one of the main reasons so many of them want us to leave is because they hate social welfare legislation. We were kept out of the social chapter until Tony Blair's government came along. Employment rights are not a nice to have, they are essential.