Germany's economy in freefall

[urbanlife]

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/25/german-economy-free-fall-exhausted-draghi-loses-magic/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

So leaving on WTO terms looks like a very sound choice. Germany props up the entire EU superstate pretty much.

I for one am feeling much more optimistic by the day.

Peregrina
Obviously had a different ballot paper to me. Leaver's poster boy Farage thought we would have a Norway style arrangement, not crashing out without a deal.

Nigel Farage's 'Norway' comment was in 2014 - not during the 2016 referendum campaign. In fact, I've seen a clip of one of David Cameron's 'vote remain' speeches, in which he refers to Nigel Farage's increasing 'no-deal' stance.

If the EU improve rights and the UK don't or if the UK contract rights (which is possible with such a right-wing government) then the GFA would be contravened

So UK needs to ensure they keep watch on what EU legislation changes after Brexit in term states of rights (wages, job opportunities, etc.) to avoid disparities. Should not be difficult.

For me Brexit is more about changes to trade rather than changing peoples rights.

Thanks for all the links Urban.
I am also delighted to be leaving at last. I really think Boris will pull it off.

Erm lots of people who voted remain in 2016 don't believe in the EU's 'federalist dreams'. The EU won't disappear post Brexit; infact without pressure from the UK, power will likely move more quickly to Brussels then before. You clearly feel passionately about decentralising power from the EU institutions. The UK has the opportunity right now to remain a member and push hard from within. I believe it could work now like it hasn't before because of the Brexit vote in 2016 and because, like you say, lots of people across other EU countries feel the same. Leaving literally won't work. UK officials will just have to lobby the powers that be from outside the room.

Guess someone else will be along in a minute to replace them.

And right on cue ...

Guess someone else will be along in a minute to replace them.

Have I missed all the fun?

Doesn't matter when Farage said it. He did say it. He changed his tune when he did a bit of work and realised that they had Freedom of Movement and were in Schengen.

As for Cameron - the PM who was going to stay a member of Parliament and PM and see it all through and resigned within 12 hours of the result being known. Why should I care a jot about what he thought or said?

Darren Grimes

This might have been mentioned already (I'm not up-to-date with all the threads) - but Darren Grimes won his appeal against the Electoral Commission last week;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49048431

China is gaining power. Russia is too, and we are and will soon be getting used to more of this. Yes in the last sixty years we have got used to a US dominated world order, but that will probably not continue. Realignment is well overdue.
I actually agree with this urbanlife
Which is why I think setting ourselves up as an individual country at this time is madness. Putin thinks Brexit is a good idea. Of course it is for Russia it destabilizes the EU and reduces the impact of the UK.
Germany does seem likely to have a recession but leaving the EU because another country in has a recession is more than a slight overreaction.
It seems unlikely but if Germany's economy was to permanently dip this would only make the UK's place in the EU more significant.

If anyone is interested, nick clegg's book (can't remember the name but it was released in the wake of the 2016 ref) has some interesting ideas about a two speed Europe. Please don't dismiss reading it because it's by nick clegg. He says that he prefers the status quo but respects the result means that can't continue. He suggests an alternative which would involve the U.K. leaving the EU as it currently is and taking a leadership role in a new 'looser' structure of organisation.

Darren Grimes won his appeal against the Electoral Commission last week;

He won the appeal against the fine, but it was confirmed yesterday that he broke the law and the file has been referred to the Met.

I am still here, just waiting for my meeting to start, and really can't get over you are still all at it.

I mean this kindly have you thought of having proper counselling?

The usual band of remainers on here are simply throwing insults because they can't accept Urban's arguments.
She is giving you the facts you all desire so much.
Stop insulting people just because you don't agree with them.
We should all be glad that at last we have a PM who will honour the democratic vote of the people.

Thanks copper some voice of reason, yes I happen to think Boris will pull it off too. Anything to get us out, and move on. The people on here policing the threads may not have anything else to do, but some of us are interested in the future, and making the most of it!

Or the 17.8 million, to be precise.

dan

The UK has the opportunity right now to remain a member and push hard from within

Its all been done before Dan, and no we didn't get anywhere.
There is no chance of change, because they are following a plan Dan. Wake up. The plan is not for nations to become more independent, and yes it will definitely speed up when we leave, and it is up to other countries what they decide to do about that. We would have at least paved the way.

Sorry, that's not strictly true. It was confirmed that Vote Leave broke the law. The electoral commission has appealed the Darren Grimes case.

also a typo so what? Who cares I don't.

just waiting for my meeting to start

Lol
**

dan Yes Clegg has suggested a new arrangement, and its an idea with some merit, but it can not be based on the 'old rules' and the old four pillars. It needs to be new, nimble, democratic and above all equal for all members and not just the richest gets to push around the smaller or poorer members. But a true meeting of countries with business and trade at the heart, along with friendship.

A new club is a distinct possibility with Switzerland, and others, I believe it is already being discussed at the highest levels.

Mistigri
He won the appeal against the fine, but it was confirmed yesterday that he broke the law and the file has been referred to the Met.

Actually, I can't find a report on this - do you have a link?

You won, you are getting your dream, do get over it

I am don't need to get over something in my interests pere and in your interests, if only you could stop moaning about it all, and look at the upsides.

Switzerland is in the single market and the Schengen area. As a remainer: sign me up.

Cross post

Clav I can't either. They do love to peddle some waffle on here. I have literally heard it all in the last few hours.