The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

[Bearbehind]

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

My best guess is that EU will either have to make some concessions on goods that cross the invisible border or provide some form of bailout package like the they did for Greece to ensure both ROI and NI economies are not damaged.

I'm sure the EU will support ROI. But it's the UK that should be supporting NI.

But it isn’t Team UK. The team themselves don’t call themselves that and it’s just as incorrect as Team GB

The people of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands have UK passports. They are part of the UK as far as that is concerned, despite having a complicated status otherwise. It is much more correct than saying GB and ignoring NI.

Until recently the Isle of Man competed as part of Merseyside for school athletics (I think they now send their own team). The Channel Islands take part in the Hampshire championships. Pretty much UK, lets not be too pedantic.

But it's the UK that should be supporting NI

Maybe they can use some of the 9 Billion per year UK will save after leaving the EU? Or is that already reserved for Tax cuts?

@Guiness2019 - Not necessarily so as wording of WA does not compel EU to accept any solution presented. They can simply reject all suggestions without reason and UK is locked into EU forever, but without any say.

So basically, the UK is assuming the EU have the same lack of integrity that the UK have shown in this process to date.

I can only assume that you haven't read the WA or the additional clarifications? There are binding dispute procedures in the event on either party showing poor faith.

So basically, the UK is assuming the EU have the same lack of integrity that the UK have shown in this process to date

Well Donald Tusk's comment about a special place in hell for Brexit supporters did not go down well.

If you're going to quote Tusk, make sure to use the full quote

"There is a special place in hell for those that promoted Brexit without even the sketch of a plan "

And he was and is 100% correct.

@GeorgeBest2005 - Well Donald Tusk's comment about a special place in hell for Brexit supporters did not go down well.

Your misquote of Tusk's comment simply reinforces my point.

"Well Donald Tusk's comment about a special place in hell for Brexit supporters did not go down well."

Guess you forgot the "without a sketch of a plan " bit. But convenient "forgetting " is very Brexiteer-y.

I didn't even have to look the quote up - I know it off by heart

Is planning and implementation not the task of Government once a vote has been cast that requires a change?

@EmeraldIsle2016 - Is planning and implementation not the task of Government once a vote has been cast that requires a change?

You'd think so. Not much planning or implementation taking place in Westminster.

www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0725/1065127-brexit/

EU 'must compromise' on backstop - Donaldson

Updated / Thursday, 25 Jul 2019 10:35

Jeffrey Donaldson said the DUP would not take no-deal off the table

The DUP has said the European Union "must compromise" on the backstop arrangements or we are facing a no-deal Brexit.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Jeffrey Donaldson said that while the DUP wanted to leave with a deal, it would not join parliamentary efforts to prevent Brexit from happening and would not take no-deal "off the table".

"We know that is the strongest lever the UK government has in its negotiations with Brussels," Mr Donaldson said.

However, he stressed the DUP wanted to see a deal and he hopes that Brussels would compromise on a withdrawal agreement.

He said a no-deal scenario can be prevented, not just by the House of Commons but by the Irish Government "being pragmatic and prepared to compromise".

Mr Donaldson said there was a great desire in Dublin "to ignore the realities coming down the track" and not to focus on the impact a no-deal Brexit would have on the Republic, but on Northern Ireland.

He said there was a massive impact on the Republic and so it is vital the Irish Government, the EU and the UK work together to get a withdrawal agreement in place.

Mr Donaldson said he does not accept the doom-laden forecasts, but acknowledges the difficulties a no-deal situation would bring to the island of Ireland.

Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation Heather Humphreys said the business community north and south in Ireland wants to hear the new British Prime Minister's plans for the border post-Brexit as soon as possible.

She said solutions have to be found to deal with cross-border trade after Brexit, as the Irish position remains unchanged about the backstop and there is "no point in Boris Johnson saying 'we can sort it out', without putting meat on the bone".

Speaking on the same programme, she said businesses want to know what to expect after October and it was proving "very difficult" to prepare with the uncertainty surrounding the issue.

"That's why the backstop is there", she added.

Minister Humphreys said it was not easy trying to unravel years of business practices along the border and from east to west.

She said it was incumbent on the UK, the EU and Ireland to protect the Good Friday Agreement as an international agreement and as someone who had lived through the Troubles, she could not "countenance going back to a border and all it entails".

She said she accepted that checks on goods would be required to protect the integrity of the EU single market and there was a very intricate supply chain between the Republic and Northern Ireland where components and goods criss-cross the border seamlessly.

To unravel that and put in checks was going to be very difficult, she added.

@DGRossetti - the DUP are quite happy to play this game. Getting rid of the backstop potentially destroys the GFA, which they have always opposed.

I love the idea of the DUP suggesting that we need to face up to the reality of what's coming.
Would that be the demographic reality? Tick tick Mr Donaldson.
If you want to stay a big fish in a small pond, accept NI as a special economic zone and the border put in the sea.

Isthisafreename
Clavinova-have you read that document? What is proposed in that document is not currently implementable.

Yes, I did read it. Could the proposals be in place by 31st October? No way - but you asked for a link to the 'existing technology, trusted trader schemes and behind-border checks' proposed by the customs experts, which I provided.

However, it is obvious that Ireland and the EU have a contingency plan to prevent physical checks at the border in the event of a 'no-deal' - they just haven't told the UK what these plans are.

A light-hearted suggestion for solving the border I have seen elsewhere is perhaps becoming more possible?

England + Wales leave the UK and the EU.

Scotland + NI remain in the EU as the United Kingdom of Scotland & Northern Ireland.

No issues with a border between Ireland / NI. The country that voted remain, remain.
Westminster no longer has to deal with Scotland NI which gives it even more independence to go it's own way.

Not sure that could all be sorted out in the next few months though

The UK is a single member of the EU. That, as individual states, both NI and Scotland voted remain does not change fact that they are seen as UK by EU. On the logic you have suggested you would need to separate all constituencies that voted differently to their adjoining neighbours by hard borders.

Nothing to prevent NI and Scotland voting to leave the UK, but by doing so they give up EU membership and would have to apply to EU to join as a new member. However, no obligation for EU to accept

Depends on who you define as the residual state. If England and Wales chooses to leave the UK - and the EU, then Scotland and NI continue in the EU as the continuing sovereing state

It's the same logic as saying that if Scotland left, rUK would still be in the EU and Scotland would be out.

BTW: there are no "queues" per se to join the EU. Accession states can join as soon as they meet the criteria. So Scotland, whose laws etc are currently compatible with the EU, would meet the criteria. They wouldn't meet the criteria to join the Eurozone - but like Sweden, can commit to join once they meet the financial criteria and then can choose if/when they meet them

If Scotland and NI were to take over as UK sovereign state would they not then be liable for UKs commitment to pay the EU the £50 Million per day?

Nothing to prevent NI and Scotland voting to leave the UK, but by doing so they give up EU membership and would have to apply to EU to join as a new member. However, no obligation for EU to accept

No obligation, true.

However I think there would be a great sentimental desire to do so. Particularly before the rUK has entered into serious trade talks with the rEU.

However, no obligation for EU to accept

None at all. Except the EU leaders have already said they wouldn't block it, in Scotland's case. And as Ireland is already a member state, in the event of reunification NI would be part of Ireland so wouldn't have to reapply.

They would be liable for rUK's GDP budget contribution. Minus the 55 million in England, that would be vastly reduced

Contrary to popular Brexiter opinion, the UK is not one of the biggest contributors on a per capita basis (iirc, it's 8th or 9th, on a par with Italy and well behind Belgium and the Netherlands). The only reason it was one of the largest was that it had one of the largest populations and one of the largest GDPs

Getting rid of England automatically reduces the budget contribution.

Of course an independent Scotland and Unified Ireland might not accept an rUK entry to the EU in 10,20 years time. No one would blame them.

Incidentally, I fear Wales is bound to England now. More than ever.

EU leaders have already said they wouldn't block it, in Scotland's case

How often do politicians honour their word?

reunification NI would be part of Ireland so wouldn't have to reapply

Have the EU leaders said that as well?

Of course an independent Scotland

More Scots voted to remain in UK than voted to remain in EU