The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

[Bearbehind]

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

I reckon that "Blair+Major on the Irish border story" got drowned out in all the other debate and accusations of "Project Fear" swirling around at the time. People didn't want to listen any more.

:( at anyone who "just wants to get Brexit done." Crashing out will be just another of many stages to come. Resounding Remain result in 2016 would have been only way to make Brexit go away.

Thank you @lljkk . It's heartbreaking that people are clinging to the "nobody knew" "Remainers are amplifying an obscure issue and pretending it's more important than it is".
Dislike both Blair and Major by all means but they were both PM and should be at least listened to on that basis.

It's just a shame people didn't listen to the warnings

Maybe they voted leave for reasons other than; economics, jobs, GFA, etc. Something convinced 17.4 Million that leave was best choice to make. In the three years that have passed since the referendum is there any evidence of a significant change of mind?

Resounding Remain result in 2016 would have been only way to make Brexit go away

But did not happen. So UK needs to press ahead. If voters think it was a bad idea they can vote differently in the future.

No point in trying to change people's mind over their feelings. But the stark reality of the problems No Deal creates for the NI border should give any sensible person pause for thought over No Deal.
I'm not saying don't Leave, I'm saying don't No Deal.
It is pathetic how Brexiteers try to conflate the two.

UK needs to press ahead.

Or Leavers could rise in the streets saying "We were sold a lie that Brexit would be great and easy!" Too proud, though, to admit they were conned & sold a fantasy by charlatans. They have the power to stop this. But would rather "press ahead" than admit they were screwed. :(

If voters think it was a bad idea they can vote differently in the future.

Not soon if we don't get a 3rd referendum. Rejoining EU in future won't be on nearly as good terms as we have now.

Maybe I'd be happier if fewer people had been honest. Lots folk who endorsed Leave to "Give a kicking to the establishment." Nothing to do with EU or merits/drawbacks of EU membership. Just the politics of envy & resentment. Resentment is NOT the best way to make good political decisions.

But would rather "press ahead" than admit they were screwed

Pride I guess. I work with people who are convinced their opinion is the Law that rest of the World must follow.

Give a kicking to the establishment

Is Brexit a Working class revolution? The following link suggests not;

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/brexit-and-the-squeezed-middle/

Just the politics of envy & resentment

Was it the North South divide in England? Results suggest not. North East voted leave, but so did the South East.

So there is something that prompted a leave vote that can't be explained by; demographic, geographic, economics. My best guess is

IMMIGRATION

{ My best guess is
IMMIGRATION}

Except that doesn't tie in properly either, as the NE where there was a strong leave vote, immigration is IIRC lower than average.
Then look at London, Bristol, Glasgow, Liverpool etc, areas with significantly higher immigration voting remain.

Except that doesn't tie in properly either, as the NE where there was a strong leave vote, immigration is IIRC lower than average.
Then look at London, Bristol, Glasgow, Liverpool etc, areas with significantly higher immigration voting remain

England as a whole (which includes London, Bristol and Liverpool) has higher immigration % than; Scotland , NI and Wales by a factor of almost 2. Wales is the oddball in that they voted leave.

"IMMIGRATION" - Otherwise known as "Xenophobia" or "Racism"...

"Give a kicking to the establishment"

I first heard those words out of the mouth of a woman who was privately educated. She works in academia & her husband is a Prof. Her father is retired doctor. Her kids went to expensive private schools.

Dyson, Farage, Johnson, Tump: Wealthy family backgrounds, expensively privately educated & happily cultivating anti-establishment personas.

The working class have no monopoly on "kick the establishment" desires.

The UK is whipping itself into a frenzy over suspicious polls where 'conclusions' are being drawn from data where the questions did not fit the subject.
Take the vote for MEPs, The real question is 'who would you like to represent you in Brussels' but the results were interpreted in many ways to attempt to show UK political party allegiances, hardly the same thing at all.

@TheEmpireNoMore - Thought the special economic zone was for the purpose of goods crossing borders as opposed to citizens rights?

The GFA is about more than just goods. It also requires alignment of rights between NI and RoI.

WTF?

@Clavinova - I didn't know you had learning difficulties 1tisILeClerc - bad luck - at least they sent you an 'easy to read' leaflet before the referendum.

Your, presumably, misguided attempt at humour really says a lot about you and it's not positive.

Clavinova
If you like I can add some more pictures, then YOU might eventually understand, although I doubt you ever will.

WTF?
1tisILeClerc's link yesterday morning - I've just clicked on it - you obviously didn't understand his joke.

His link says; "This is a document intended to be easier to read for people with learning difficulties."

Again, even with the "explanation " , WTF?

@Clavinova - 1tisILeClerc's link yesterday morning - I've just clicked on it - you obviously didn't understand his joke.

I saw the link yesterday. I saw it had been designed to be easy to read for those with learning difficulties. That still doesn't make your "joke" anything other than distasteful, at best.

Isthisafreename
Same old, same old - Remain voters are allowed to say or imply that Leave voters are thick, but any jest the other way around is 'distasteful'.

The one thing 1tisILeClerc's leaflet doesn't mention is the Irish border...

Just when I thought @Clavinova couldn't sink any lower.

@Clavinova - Same old, same old - Remain voters are allowed to say or imply that Leave voters are thick, but any jest the other way around is 'distasteful'.

Maybe you should put the shovel down and stop digging.

So why did 1tisILeClerc link to a leaflet for people with learning difficulties if it doesn't mention NI?

I actually searched for the leaflet as posted through my door in 2016, but that version came up. Since it conveyed the same message as the original it is quite valid.
There was an obvious flaw in the original leaflets in that they did not specify that by voting to leave, many of the aspects that we enjoy as an EU member will be taken away. Most readers would come to this conclusion themselves, but it seems rather a lot did not follow this simple train of thought.