The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

[Bearbehind]

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

The british negotiators, who were representatives of the british government, agreed to the WA

Maybe, but wasn't the outcome of Gina Miller case that Brexit had to managed by parliamentary procedure? Hence MPs are required to vote on any deals proposed?

@TheEmpireNoMore - No obligation on EU to accept any the proposals made by UK to solve the border issue. Nor does UK have the right to withdraw from the WA even if it obvious the negotiations are going nowhere and both EU an UK agree to disagree. Outcome would be that UK is trapped in the EU forever, but without any say as UK loses MEPs.

This is assuming the EU will display the same lack of integrity the UK has displayed to date. The EU would prefer if the UK did not leave. However, as they have decided to do so, the EU is willing to work with them to facilitate that. However, there are 2 caveats: the GFA must not be violated; the 4 pillars are integral.

Good deal for the EU, but a bad one the UK. Not too surprised it was rejected 3 times.

Really? At this stage, I think most of the EU would prefer if the UK just went. The amount of time and money wasted over the past 3 years due to the incompetence of the UK is staggering. The EU has spent huge amounts of time and money preparing for a no deal brexit as well as trying to get the uk to cop on and figure out what the hell they want. The UK is, at the moment, a disruptive, negative force that is no benefit to anyone, including themselves.

It's actually the UK government not the British government. Y'know, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
As for it all being down to Gina Miller. I might shit myself laughing at that one.
If Parliament wasn't allowed to be involved we would be out via WA. Is that what Brexiteers want?😂😂😂😂😂

@TheEmpireNoMore - Maybe, but wasn't the outcome of Gina Miller case that Brexit had to managed by parliamentary procedure? Hence MPs are required to vote on any deals proposed?

Which simply shows the incompetence of the UK. Going into negotiations without any clue as to what will be agreed by parliament was stupid.

@bellinisurge - It's actually the UK government not the British government. Y'know, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I do apologise. I've obviously been listening to the DUP ranting about being British for too long and conflated UK and British.

If Parliament wasn't allowed to be involved we would be out via WA. Is that what Brexiteers want?

Some might say that Gina Miller is the one who put no deal on the table by forcing any proposed deal to be put to MPs for vote. Now she is having another go to prevent a no deal.

To Bellinisurge and BackInTime

So the whole show is down to the DUP wanting to get one over both the ROI and EU?

"Some might say that Gina Miller is the one who put no deal on the table by forcing any proposed deal to be put to MPs for vote. Now she is having another go to prevent a no deal."
Yeah, that's right, it's all GinaMillerRemoanerEUTurncoatFakeBrexiteerTheresaMayIreland's fault. 😂

It's never Brexiteers' fault for failing to be honest about how tricky it would be because of GFA.

@TheEmpireNoMore - the whole show is pretty much down to no one being brave enough to tell DUP to fuck off with their nonsense because of the "confidence and supply " thing.

We seem to be the only country that is unable to leave of our own free will purely from a terrorism point of view.

Well they are UK terrorists mostly terrorising UK citizens and breaking UK law.

For what it's worth, there are many in the EU who are not happy with the WA because it gives too much to the UK. There has I believe been a fair amount of arm twisting among the EU 27 to get it to the point that it is now. I would suggest that given this, the WA is a 'safety net' for the UK in that if the UK crashes out the wolves will be unleashed in a 'fire sale' like no other. It could be a no holds barred bunfight. At least with the WA, there will be time for negotiation and reasoned discussion.

It's never Brexiteers' fault for failing to be honest about how tricky it would be because of GFA

More accurate to say UK government error in not researching more thoroughly before agreeing to have a referendum. The leaflet sent out to all households prior to the referendum makes no reference to the GFA or Northern Ireland at all.

This fantasy that it's about kowtowing to terrorists is typical Faridge bollocks to distract from the reality of the situation.
We have an international obligation to comply with GFA.
We can still Brexit and comply but it is a bit fiddly to do so and requires compromise. Like WA. Or Border in the Sea/NI is a special economic zone .
It just does. We have to be grown ups. If we don't accept our international obligations under GFA, how do we expect to negotiate fabulous trade deals because we will have a reputation of ignoring our obligations? And given that both sides of the political divide in the US have Irish descent representatives, how can we get a deal with the US ratified by congress?

With no deal, there will be 'no deals' with anyone else for several years until things like the GFA are sorted out. The USA will block deals if necessary. As a rough idea, the UK becomes 10% 'cheaper' overnight, meaning imports become about 10% greater cost, it just depends on where you are standing.

"The leaflet sent out to all households prior to the referendum makes no reference to the GFA or Northern Ireland at all."

I presume you didn't temporarily lose the ability to read in the run up to the referendum. You know, like, other stuff.

@Twooter - we are unable to just leave. We are the only country in the EU who are trapped in it.

Nope. You're not trapped in the EU. You just need to leave in a way that doesn't break an international peace treaty you signed and accept that you cannot leave whilst still retaining all the benefits of membership.

So none of the MPs read the WA before voting? Hard to believe.
I don't know about all the MPs, but I do know that the DUP ones hadn't because Sammy Wilson misrepresented it and was corrected numerous times by a body representing agri food and hauliers in NI, whose legal teams had went through it with a fine tooth comb and believed it to be a good deal for them.

DUP still voted No. But then they are famous for saying "No".🤣

Isthisafreename
That sound SO unreasonable (in a Kevin and Perry sort of way).

@1tisILeClerc - That sound SO unreasonable (in a Kevin and Perry sort of way).

Just googled Kevin and Perry (I don't have british TV channels)

Thankfully none of my teens were that bad.

Isthisafreename
You lean something new every day

Learn even!

Yes TheEmpireNoMore: "The leaflet sent out to all households prior to the referendum makes no reference to the GFA or Northern Ireland at all."
I noticed that and its one thing that really confuses me. Could they really not have realised the importance of this? Or could they have left it out on purpose for some reason?

I think they left it out because it is a can of worms. And they thought they didn't need it as an argument, I suppose. Because you would probably get meatheads saying "Fuck the Irish. Don't give in to terrorism. The British are unique ". Shit like that. So we just get it now instead.

I presume you didn't temporarily lose the ability to read in the run up to the referendum. You know, like, other stuff

The gov.uk website does not say anything about Ireland and GFA. From what I remember in the run up to 23 June 2016 the argument was about trade, tariffs, job losses, immigration. Don't remember GFA receiving much attention, if any, in the press, TV debates, etc.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

It has pictures too!