The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

[Bearbehind]

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

@1tisILeClerc , if both parties were willing to agree to it , as evidenced by WA, it's not as much of a problem.

What would happen if we have an open border in Ireland and a hard border in the Irish Sea?

What problems dies that create?

My preferred option @Snog - with NI as a special economic zone- , but the DUP will see it as the slippery slope. If they had any sense they could see it would allow them to keep being a big fish in a small pond. But this is the DUP we are talking about.

bellinisurge ah yes, was posting before I'd had my morning caffeine although I read it as being between the 3 rather than with Ireland as part of the EU if that makes sense. Hence my confusion.

Looking likely if EU don’t want to re-visit the existing WA and UK MPs have rejected WA three time.

It’s not the EU’s responsibility to revisit the WA. It is not their fault that we can’t get the solution we came up with to solve a problem with the red lines we chose through Parliament. They’re not going to re open negotiations so we can bugger around for another three years to find a non-existant solution we can all agree on.

They were voting on the WA without having read or understood it

So none of the MPs read the WA before voting? Hard to believe.

If Brexiteers were too stupid or arrogant to take our international responsibilities under GFA into account, more fool them

Get the impression that leave supporters are not bothered about the GFA?

Bellini - exactly - we are unable to just leave. We are the only country in the EU who are trapped in it.

bellinisurge
Indeed, Signing up to the WA (which is essentially setting the ground rules for negotiations, then actually going into negotiations in a transition period is the responsible thing to do. Granted the UK loses the MEPs (a plus for the EU) and new legislation would apply to the UK DURING TRANSITION but for the duration there is no problem with the GFA and something can be worked out.
A couple of problems. Getting the WA signed and a transition started, and a very significant problem that the UK gov will not be in a fit state to negotiate anything with anybody for MANY months, or even a year or more because as has been frustrating the EU for 3 years, the UK has only managed to say what it doesn't want, and has failed to say what it DOES WANT. And still no sign of it.

They’re not going to re open negotiations so we can bugger around for another three years to find a non-existant solution we can all agree on

So that make No Deal a certainty then? The way Johnson and Hunt are talking at moment the backstop has to be changed or removed from the equation completely.

{So none of the MPs read the WA before voting? Hard to believe.}

Watching PM's question time before the third vote, the totally inane and basic questions that were being put to Theresa, showed that there were a mixture of those who had no idea what they were talking about, and some that were attempting to claim that black was white (ERG members deliberately saying things that were impossible).

If you think of the WA as a recipe book. You have a recipe to make a sponge cake, a lassangne, and about 700 other dishes. Currently the UK is enjoying everything on offer as an EU member.
You then have the Political Document, that says you will chose to have none, some or all of the things in the recipe book, and which days you will have them.
Currently, the plan was that after the transition period ALL of the edible delights will be cancelled. That would be a hard Brexit, but in a 'controlled' manner, as everybody will be able to see what the status will be at the end of transition. It may be the UK would like to continue with some things, of which CU and SM would negate the problems in Northern Ireland (might need some other bits adding, but all 'doable').

The backstop can’t be changed or removed. We’ve had to put it there because apparently nobody trusts the the word of the Westminster government.

But yes, unless Johnson or Hunt actually start thinking then No deal does look more likely. With a bit of luck the uniformed rubbish that’s come out of their mouths over the last few weeks is just lies to appeal to voters in the leadership election.

Don’t waste this time the EU said...

The undefined duration of the transition period is one of the stumbling block for WA.

No obligation on EU to accept any the proposals made by UK to solve the border issue. Nor does UK have the right to withdraw from the WA even if it obvious the negotiations are going nowhere and both EU an UK agree to disagree. Outcome would be that UK is trapped in the EU forever, but without any say as UK loses MEPs.

Good deal for the EU, but a bad one the UK. Not too surprised it was rejected 3 times.

Solutions suggested, but reading these posts it appears DUP (all 10 on them in Government) seem to be calling the shots?

The DUP are NOT in government. Please try to get some of your facts right.

TheEmpireNoMore
The EU does not want the UK to stay a member if it is not prepared to act responsibly. It is the UK ALONE that has buggered about for 3 years with insults to all and sundry and refusing to negotiate in a reasonable manner.
The UK is leaving, the EU does not have to 'give' the UK anything.
If D Davies had bounced into the meetings with Mr Barnier the day after A50 was instigated, or before, with a suitcase full of proposals that the UK would like, that did NOT attempt to undermine the principles of the EU, Mr Barnier and team would have been delighted.
Instead we had a bunch of fuckwits who found ways to be insulting to several EU leaders and in fact many other world leaders.

The DUP are NOT in government

So what are the 10 seat they have? If not in government why are they able to object and prevent any of the proposed border solutions from happening?

Google "confidence and supply ". They have that parliamentary arrangement with the minority Tory government.
The the DUP was in government we'd be living The Handmaid's Tale.

Solutions suggested, but reading these posts it appears DUP (all 10 on them in Government) seem to be calling the shots?

That’s what happens when you have a minority government and have to form a coalition with the DUP. Ordinarily a coalition would be less of an issue, but the Tories were arrogant enough to think they could screw over their coalition partners and forgot the DUP weren’t going to just roll over like the Lib Dems.

It's not a coalition as such. If it were, those fucking meatheads would have ministerial posts. Thank fuck they don't. But they have a "confidence and supply arrangement ". This means that in turn for cash , they agree to support the minority Tory government in parliamentary votes, in particular, votes of No Confidence.

they agree to support the minority Tory government in parliamentary votes

They don't seem to be supporting the suggestions to solve the border? Wonder if DUP approach is;

If EU and ROI like it then we have to dislike it. We can't be seen to be supporting the enemy in in any way

Now you get the idea of DUP politics @TheEmpireNoMore .

I firmly believe that if the Tories were not dependent on the DUP we would not be where we are now. In fact for me one of the stand out horror moments in politics over the last few years was TM doing a deal with the DUP, along with the election of Trump, Brexit and with Boris as PM soon to be added to my list.

@TheEmpireNoMore - Westminster rejected WA three times.

The british negotiators, who were representatives of the british government, agreed to the WA.

@Twooter - It does seem to be a farcical mess that the uk are seemingly unable to leave the EU due to the Irish history.

This is more of the attitude of Britain towards Ireland that has led to this mess.

I think you will find it is british history, coupled with british arrogance, intransigence and ignorance that is the problem.

@TheEmpireNoMore This is exactly how the DUP think. Remember the DUP was the only major political party in NI to oppose the GFA.