The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

[Bearbehind]

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

Isthisafreename

No government policy (or action) justifies the murder of innocent citizens - you are misguided if you think it does.

@Clavinova - No government policy (or action) justifies the murder of innocent citizens - you are misguided if you think it does.

I completely agree. However, you seem to be placing the blame for loss of life wholly on the terrorists (and only nationalist ones were mentioned - plenty of loyalist terrorists who had the support of the british army and other government agents) when there were many murders also committed by government agents. A government policy of aiding and abetting terrorists on one side and ignoring murders committed by their own forces creates an environment of murder. It doesn't justify murder but the government has some responsibility.

I was asking you who you blame for the murders committed by British government agents.

The whole point of GFA was to move towards peace and build on it. I'm half Irish. I live in NW England. I don't need any lectures on how disgusting the activities of the IRA and UVF are nor on the mess made by the UK government trying to deal with NI pre-GFA.
What @Clavinova is hoping no one notices, is that No Deal threatens this amazing thing of peace created out of such horror and No Dealers' solution to this is to say "it'll be fiiiiiine" with added meaningless bluster about not giving in to terrorism.

I also think by only focusing on IRA murders, it makes the suggestion of a united Ireland being the solution more feasible to those wanting a no deal brexit.

So if UK no deals, Ireland is reunited, terrorists are all happy so no danger to the peace process. Job done. That is why I keep mentioning loyalist and british murders. They will be the ones bringing back the terror campaign in the event of a premature united Ireland.

{1tisILeClerc

You have posted my link - are you claiming it for yourself? }

If you think so it suggests you are just petty minded as it is a link to the UK broadcaster's programme.
Since it is this thread that is talking about NI it would have been natural for you to have put it here in the first place.
Of course having put the link you could have furthered the discussion by saying how you would propose the problem is solved, rather than your usual technique of leaving a random link and wandering off.

No - I think the responsibility is on Westminster, Brussels and Dublin to come up with a solution together.

I differ. The UK voted narrowly to Leave and it's up to them to find a solution to Leave which doesn't damage their neighbours.

No - I think the responsibility is on Westminster, Brussels and Dublin to come up with a solution together.

Westminster, Brussels and Dublin did come up with a solution together. It's called the WA.

No Dealers are sooooo desperate to separate Dublin off from Brussels. Tough shit. You can't bully Ireland so easily when it has 26 mates.

Any violence is wrong. Just to make it clear I don't condone violence from any side as I've only mentioned the IRA.

And yes, Westminster need to sort this clusterfuck out. It's not Ireland's problem to sort, or the EU's.

I think they number a hundred or so

What makes you think that Clavinova?

As a pp said ROI is an EU member. UK has to deal with ROI through the EU, and trying to sidestep that by bullying ROI on its own is just not on, and will not work.

And for those interested, you might like to read some of the attitudes Brexiters have towards ROI. Honestly if I didn't laugh I'd cry. But here we are now....

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1150431326006317058.html?fbclid=IwAR0oJ0TryhWcqq1Ps1EXe_sF0qy_L1W7EbztqfNhaJqNIghPV9PDYsBY_GI

Outsomnia Enlightening link :) shocking really.

Shocking, not unfortunately, not surprising.

some of the attitudes Brexiters have towards ROI.

I have yet to meet a Mumsnet brexiter whose posts don't ooze disdain for the Irish.

These people pretend to be patriots and democrats, while acting as cheerleaders for the destruction of the union and showing zero respect for Irish sovereignty.

These people disgust me.

To me it's very sad times all round.

But pulling on my big girl pants, I live in hope that common sense will prevail somewhere, someday, somehow.

Hopefully I'm not living in la la land! Just trying to keep hopeful here.

Hate the denigration and bullying ROI is being subject too. That is not cricket, oh wait... the captain of the cricket team that won the World Cup is Irish. And he made a lovely speech of inclusion too earlier, cannot quote it word for word, but it was very inclusive.

What the heck have some of us become now?

Westminster, Brussels and Dublin did come up with a solution together. It's called the WA

Westminster rejected WA three times.

So , the alternative is No Deal?

Was Dublin consulted on the WA?

{Westminster rejected WA three times.}
'Westminster' is a bunch of idiots. They were voting on the WA without having read or understood it. It is NOT a deal, it is describing a process, like a recipe book. Once it is passed (the EU have stated repeatedly that it, or something that will be near identical) THEN the UK can start to talk about deals.
Apart from the fact that ANY deal will be worse than remaining, the PD that accompanies the WA which in effect selects which of the 700 treaties are retained or scrapped, the UK can chose from a very tight integration, total isolation, or something in between. A few of the options encompassed within the WA can support the GFA and IF the UK bothered to negotiate in a transition period, custom versions of Norway++ or whatever could be worked out.

So , the alternative is No Deal?

Looking likely if EU don’t want to re-visit the existing WA and UK MPs have rejected WA three time.

Other alternatives are;

Another extension, but if neither EU nor UK is moving on the existing WA what will that achieve

Revoke Article 50. Can’t see either Johnson or Hunt doing that. MPs voted against a second referendum I remember

It does seem to be a farcical mess that the uk are seemingly unable to leave the EU due to the Irish history. I can see it’s all unworkable but how on earth did we get so trapped? We seem to be the only country that is unable to leave of our own free will purely from a terrorism point of view.

"Was Dublin consulted on the WA?" - yes. Because it was an agreement between the EU (including Ireland) and the UK.

It is not the EU's fault if the government of the UK agrees a deal arrangement and the UK government can't get it ratified by the UK Parliament.
If the alternatives fuck with GFA, that is the UK's fault.

The WA, as I have just said is a process, not a deal. All 28 EU leaders have signed up to it, Theresa included, but the UK PM has to get it passed by the UK government/HoC to ratify it. In fact, the EU27 also need to ratify it, but that is mostly a formality as it was discussed and agreed before November last year.
The EU have prepared for a 'no deal' and are not going to reopen the WA.
The UK is not in control and the EU is simply waiting for the UK to stop dancing around it's handbags and say what it wants.
The UK is playing roulette with the EU, and stands to lose.

@Twooter , we have an international agreement called GFA. Brexit doesn't fuck with it if we leave via WA.
If Brexiteers were too stupid or arrogant to take our international responsibilities under GFA into account, more fool them.
The reason we are not out already is on ERG types for not accepting WA.

Actually some versions of what the PD defines (from the smorgasbord of the WA) would still mess with the GFA as it also requires SM and CU to continue. This is why the GFA is separated from the WA itself, like the citizens rights and the exit bill.