Westminstenders: It couldn't get any worse... Until today

[RedToothBrush]

We are trapped in the tailspin of the end of the UK. Firmly headed downward and getting more and more frenzied and desperate.

Even the most sensible of types like David Allen Green have finally noticed that Brexit isn't about leaving the EU it's about the frenzied and wilful destruction of our state instutions and structure. The collapse of the civil service, of our justice system, our democratic institutions and social order. All in the name of rule Britannia, a warped sense of taking back control to preserve an ideal that never existed and an idea of sovereignity that simply was a fantasy.

We move ever closer to Johnson becoming Prime Minister and a life under President Trump.

Joy.

Ode to Joy really isn't that bad.

[BigChocFrenzy]

afaik, BJ has refused to comment on the latest Trump row - as in the debate -
but Hunt found some backbone in his F.O job:

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-hunt-calls-trump-disrespectful-11759879

Tory leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt has hit out at President Trump, calling him "disrespectful" to the prime minister and the UK.

Mr Hunt tweeted:
"@realDonaldTrump friends speak frankly so I will: these comments are disrespectful and wrong to our Prime Minister and my country."

The foreign secretary, confirmed that he would keep Sir Kim on should he win the leadership contest,
adding: "Allies need to treat each other with respect as @theresa_may has always done with you.
"Ambassadors are appointed by the UK government and if I become PM our Ambassador stays."

He reiterated his support during a live televised leadership debate on ITV,
but his opponent, Boris Johnson, refused to be drawn on the ambassador's future.

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson is a coward and whilst he wants to be PM it would suit his lazy ass to outsource the premiership to Washington.

[SwedishEdith]

.

[Oakenbeach]

I guess at least Labour finally got their message straight today.

Have they? Basically, so they’ll campaign for a referendum and to vote against a Tory Brexit, but if they become the Government they will look to get their own cuddly Brexit deal which they may or may not support in a subsequent confirmatory vote.... Totally clear message

[thethethethethe]

.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Simon Coveney: in Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/simon-coveney-we-only-have-115-days-to-get-ready-for-a-no-deal-brexit-1.3949549

The backstop is also about protecting the EU’s single market and the Republic’s place in it.

The Irish people did not vote to leave the EU.

The State has not caused this problem and
we cannot be expected to compromise our place in the EU and our single market to fix it
...
I make no apology for protecting Ireland through Brexit.
....
The State’s number one contingency is, and will remain, our EU membership, with all of the support and security that brings.

[borntobequiet]

Thanks Red, and thanks all for your company and conversation that makes my early waking bearable!
Another one who couldn’t bear to watch the “debate”.

[NoWordForFluffy]

Did anybody watch Inside the Bank of England? Last night was about how the bank is modelling all versions of Brexit, including absolute disaster, to see if the economy can cope and what measures the bank would need to put in to assist.

It was actually really interesting. Mark Carney was talking about trying to keep factual whilst being criticised for getting involved in politics and being part of 'Project Fear'. I liked him; he was a great appointment to the job.

The PF thing pissed me off; all he could do was talk about what their modelling had shown, which was fact. There are some real idiots about when it comes to banging on about PF.

[bellinisurge]

What channel was that on @NoWordForFluffy ?- I'll try and see it on catchup somewhere.
Thanks @RedToothBrush .
Another one here who couldn't face the "debate".
Everything I read on here from No Dealers convinces me that the strongest motivation is now nihilism. I accept there are people who wanted to Leave and assumed that the politicians could sort it out. And now it has been shown how hard that is, rather than compromise, they are more attracted to this childish tantrumming.
Fuck that shit.

[NoWordForFluffy]

BBC2 at 9pm, so it should be on iPlayer for a while yet, @bellinisurge.

[RedToothBrush]

Oh after the brain rot of last night's debate (which I also couldn't face), tonight we have the spectacle of panorama on Labour's complaint process possibly followed up by Labour trying to bury it with the glorious announcement of something or other. Which is probably utterly meaningly anyway.

It's a horror show.

[bellinisurge]

Thank you @NoWordForFluffy . Dh is almost physically unable to watch this stuff on TV - lots of work stress (not Brexit related) - so I will download and watch over lunch.
My shorthand description of the Panorama thing was:better planning than you fear but not ever going to be enough , particularly for small businesses.

[NoWordForFluffy]

I don't watch any Brexit stuff if I can help it, but we watched the programme last week, when it was far more lighthearted, so tuned in this week as well.

It was well done, and didn't get political, just factual about the BofE's role in supporting the economy.

The mental health of a vast swathe of the public is being annihilated by coping with the Brexit shit on top of everything else life throws at us. Lack of control has a massive effect of people especially if you're a control freak like me

I'm just glad I've changed jobs and am at a firm which isn't trampling on my mental health anymore, as I'm not sure I'd have coped if I hadn't.

[Mistigri]

Everything I read on here from No Dealers convinces me that the strongest motivation is now nihilism

I agree with this. It's one of the reasons why there's no point in arguing. I think the best approach now to the Brexiters on here is to take the silliest stuff out of context and blow it up and make fun of it (as some of us did with the suicide bomber troll on another thread).

[Lisette1940]

The mental health of a vast swathe of the public is being annihilated by coping with the Brexit shit on top of everything else life throws at us. Lack of control has a massive effect of people - you're so right here Fluffy. DH and I were just saying this tonight. You have your on panalopy of rubbish going on at a local family level and then the world's gone to pot too. It's like there's no escape.

[NoWordForFluffy]

I go through moments of utterly despairing what people of all nations are voting for. What the fuck has happened to society to make people so selfish and turn against each other?

[Iambuffy]

Pmk

[megletthesecond]

DD taught me to play Ode To Joy on her violin. I'm tempted to stand in the town playing it sadly on 31st Oct.

[Iambuffy]

Not been watching either.
Can't face it.
Feeling very low about it all.
I'm not sure I have much hope left.

[ginandbearit]

Hunt could have demolished Boris at the end by asking if we want an adolescent or an adult as pm ..Hunt may be mr beige but is serious ..Boris is attention seeking , playful but with limited or no self discipline and cannot delay gratification...ok as minister for fun and shagging...as pm he'll be Trump's puppet..gawd help us.

[TemporaryPermanent]

pmk.

I did see a bit of the debate. God I hate these set pieces. Not that I have a vote or anything.

At bottom, I'm relieved we do still have a parliamentary system though. That fool who wanted Farage as PM. Imagine being an MP and finding that you had to deal with a 'People's PM' voted in separately. Farage or Yaxley-lennon? take your pick.

[HesterThrale]

Didn’t watch the debate but I see the BBC is factchecking some of the claims, including Johnson’s Irish border ‘ideas’.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48931052

[LonelyTiredandLow]

PMK
Didn't watch the debate - thought they had already voted however many times each got so we are being subjected to more brain rot for no purpose. Hardly like we don't as a populace know which is sane and which is the bonkers option that we personally won't get a choice in. I'm glad Hunt at least is standing up for our country against Trump.

Thanks for the BoE suggestion - it's on my list for tonight. I need a sane voice who actually talks sense.

[HesterThrale]

I know buffy, it’s hard to stay hopeful. Every month for 3 years I’ve thought it couldn’t get any worse, but every month it does.

I am going to the March next week though. They usually give you a bit of hope.

www.marchforchange.uk/

[BoreOfWhabylon]

PMK. Thanks Red.