Just how exactly are we going to 'bring the country back together'?

[KennDodd]

Both candidates for PM have claimed they can do this. I heard a Tory party member interviewed on the radio saying that the best way to do this was a 'no deal/WTO/crash out because we'll all be in it together and it'll be like the war'.
I don't know how these wounds are going to heal.

so why are we leaving?

Fuck knows

Democracy apparently

I mean, all the remainers on here are super confident that leaving will be terrible ( you appear to have plenty of evidence to support this ) so why are we leaving?

I've been asking that for 3 years. In that time two, yes two, leave voters have explained their rationale for voting the way they did. I may disagree with it, but they had thought out reasons and it was right to them.

Why? No fucking idea. Do you know?

It will be like one of those motorway 'log jams' where everyone stops for ages, and then when you get going again there was no apparent reason for it. In the end no one wanted Brexit but the UK simply decided to implode.
There are of course far more interesting 'conspiracy' type theories, which haven't yet been fully exposed.

"so why are we leaving?"
No fucking idea. Given that there are Tories who are now prepared to bring down a Tory Government to stop No Deal, you think some of these stupid wankers would take the hint.

There are lots of ways to Leave that don't mean Crashing out.
Maybe BJ is right (like a stopped clock twice a day) and there has been a terrible "lack of imagination" in the whole Brexit debaucle.

There really wasn't much discussion of NI in the tabloids, unless to say it was 'project fear'. When we brought the subject up on Mumsnet, we had one Quitling give us the edifying response "not my circus, not my monkeys". That is literally what we're dealing with here.

In that time two, yes two, leave voters have explained their rationale for voting the way they did. I may disagree with it, but they had thought out reasons and it was right to them.

I agree, I can only think of two offhand. Clearly they had thought because they didn't trot out the usual sound bites. I didn't agree either but have more respect for people who can give a reason why they voted the way they did. If there were a few more like that there might be a hope of finding a way forward because at least there is room for debate.

The others - the majority are anti-immigrant, usually dressed up with rationalisations.

If there were a few more like that there might be a hope of finding a way forward because at least there is room for debate.

Agreed.

The immigration thing is standard, as is some love for Farage or Robinson (ugh), or some kind of sticking it to the system with a vote to make a point. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

We can admit we were wrong, isn't that progressive politics?

Not so long ago men and women were jailed for being gay. It was illegal. We realised it was wrong and changed things.

Less than 100 years ago, women were still fighting for the vote. That changed too.

Germany voted in the Nazis, they clearly realised that wasn't right and haven't since.

People fuck up and change their minds all the time. History tends to look more kindly on those open to change and progression.

lisbon the problem is those who were going to change their minds already have done, they’re the ones who are now quiet.

All that’s left are the die harders who only care about immigration and won’t change their mind whatever happens.

Even rat shit no deal will be the fault of the foreigners.

Maybe BJ is right (like a stopped clock twice a day) and there has been a terrible "lack of imagination" in the whole Brexit debaucle.

About the only true thing he has said and it won't be supplied by him.

the problem is those who were going to change their minds already have done, they’re the ones who are now quiet.

That's a fair point. About time they spoke up I think, no?

I hate all the war analogies. I'm not sure how the country came back together after the civil war - think it was time and the return of the status quo I.e. the monarchy. People compare it to ww2 where we had a common enemy so therefore pulled together but if there are shortages I'm buggered if I'm sharing anything with my neighbour who voted leave anyone who still is a ''believer' and got us into this mess.
The Brexit party are now saying 30 years before we see any benefit so that's the rest of my working life and retirement. Gen x are fucked.

{Maybe BJ is right (like a stopped clock twice a day) and there has been a terrible "lack of imagination" in the whole Brexit debacle.}

If there had been a very carefully worked out plan, and the UK had negotiated with our friends and allies in the EU (rather than calling them nasty names) it is possible that leaving could have (sort of) worked.
The problem is not that the UK is leaving, but there has been no destination specified. If you have no plan, how do you know you have arrived?
Realistically the UK is not ever going to be a 'superpower' again. It is struggling to hold the union of 4 together, let alone anywhere else.
It does not have vast natural resources, and labour will be undercut by many other countries, so it is difficult to see where that could go.
Financial services, although some will continue, it needs to be in a major trading bloc, not independent.

Unless the 'hostile environment' and FoM is reversed/ retained, top industrialists/scientists/industrial investors won't want to be stuck in the UK when they can go elsewhere with better conditions.

I see a bump, Oct31st? when 'Brexit' actually kicks off.
A big jump (probably down) in the value of the Pound.
Industries who are preparing to leave will do so.
This will then be followed by much wailing and hand wringing and rash promised being made about how things will improve, but the actions taken by industry will determine what really happens from then on.

The contenders for leadership are pitching to about 200k dyed in the wool Tories, perhaps of a certain age who won't suffer much if the S hits the F. That's democracy for ya. That small cohort will decide our future, and there we were arguing over a 52/48 result in the referendum.
You could not make this up now!

My guess is that Brexit as in the Hard Leave will not happen now. I think the message is slowly getting through to moderate Leavers that it is untested, it has not been planned for and will cause undue hardship to those who can least afford it.

OK the Brexit Party has climbed in the polls, but will they perform as well in a GE? I doubt it. EU elections are one thing but allowing them to run the country as a pack of bigots with an ill informed one issue ideology is another thing.

We shall see.

Led by Donkeys.

I'm preparing my dc to emigrate. I wont be able to go with them as I'll be too old. Brexit will trigger the same kind of young people leaving that used to happen in Ireland.

The Hustings, the Debates, it's interesting how much time Hunt/BJ/etc spend attacking Corbyn, Libdems or Labour. Who aren't in their current contest.

Is this a new Project Fear? "Vote for me to avoid the Dreaded Labour Government!"

Anyway, back to the original question. Any ideas how we could end this division? I fear after Brexit it'll be a lot worse than it is now.

Get Brexit via a border in the sea and with NI as a special economic zone. I will be ok with a Brexit like that.

Ken,

England and Wales to leave. Scotland to stay and be Indo.

NI is VERY problematic. Unionists want to stay within the Union but they know that will impoverish them (as it will most people in UK). NI voted to stay, but the DUP is ruling the roost. If there is any attempt to install a hard border, there will be trouble ahead.

Both sides will be affected mightily, but for sure the Unionists will dig their heels in for good or for ill. Even though a majority who voted for the DUP are wealthy farmers doing business with ROI for their milk seamlessly every day.

I just dunno. I wish this thing had never happened.

That wasn't very helpful to the debate was it? But just my gut feeling.

I don't think there is any solution frankly.

@bellinisurge

What about Scotland. How do you think they will react to your suggestion, given they voted leave.

That's my attempt to concede Leave to Leavers. @Outsomnia . I used to be against independence for Scotland. I think they deserve another independence referendum if we leave and I wish them good luck either way.

It doesn't matter if the WA is revoked or we leave, half the country wont be happy, we will always be a broken nation now. David Cameron dropped the bomb, pressed the button & walked away from the mess, the rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer, & they call it progress.

bellini.

Nothing will work apart from revoking A50, or a GE IMO.

All other suggestions are fraught with much difficulty now. And some are beginning to realise that every action has a consequence.

The only way Leaving EU will work is if there is no Hard Border between NI and ROI. That is the bottom line now I think. Even if the cretins who think they know better think otherwise.

I am so disappointed with the lack of clarity and analysis from those who should know better.

But we are going to have Johnson soon so anything is possible. I really despair, as do most people who have an interest in the implications.

Sadly many do not, and enjoy the soundbytes and jingoism.

Outsomnia Scotland didn't vote leave

Scotland did NOT vote Leave. At all.

We didn't vote for this shitstorm, we didn't want it and I don't see why we should have to suffer for it!