What are the real tangible benefits of the UK leaving the EU ?

[frumpety]

I assume there must be at least a couple, things that can be said with certainty, that will improve the lives of UK citizens. I am not talking about the 'feelings' stuff like sovereignty, I mean if the UK leaves the EU , X will happen and this will automatically improve the lives of the majority of the people in the UK. There has to be at least one ?

Misti, I do know the difference between the ECJ and the ECHR, even if you don't

You could think of the EU contribution (0.7%) as like your Costco card, where you pay a few quid, but in the UK's case get around 10% off all goods traded through the EU as a member.
I think it represents something like seven times what we pay, we get as 'benefits'.

Jason, I have never said the "belief", cult or otherwise was a benefit, tangible or otherwise.

You would have thought there comes a point, after literally everything you say is proved to be incorrect, that you start to question yourself.

Sadly it’s not happening.

Yes, LeClerc, but I don't have a Costco card
No amount of money paid into the EU can be justified as far as I am concerned.
Fortunately it looks like Boris will be the next PM. I will be voting for him this week and I trust him to get him out of the EU.

No amount of money paid into the EU can be justified as far as I am concerned.

Which just proves it’s nothing to do with benefits, only prejudices.

Bear, you have not, nor will you be able to, prove to me or anyone else that:

We have to keep paying 0.7% into the EU after we have left.
We have to stay under the jurisdiction of the ECJ
We will not be able to make our own trade deals
We will not be able to have a points system for immigration.

I will be voting for him this week Just out of curiosity, if Brexit was not an issue would you still want him as PM?

But Bear, I see no benefits from a United States of Europe, a EU President, an EU flag or an EU army, or, for that matter an EU anthem

Time, no I would not.

We have to keep paying 0.7% into the EU after we have left.
But you still haven't explained how it is a benefit to save 0.7% if this means paying much more than 0.7%. HOW is that a benefit?

Bellini, if you are so tormented by the "tentacles" of the ECJ, then I expect you agree with me that leaving its jurisdiction is a benefit.

Time, no I would not.
I find this really weird tbh. If he succeeds in getting us to leave we will be in a terrible position. How do you think he will be able to take us forward? Leaving is only the beginning. The negotiations will take years.

Time, I am sorry if you find it weird.
I find it weird that we are still in the EU. We should have left on March 31st.

Boris will also beat Corbyn in a GE and we will continue to have a Tory government.

Not in EU
Tory govt,
Double win.

Ok. How do you think BJ is going to negotiate a new deal or do you think it will be no deal now?

copper I’ll happily respond to each of your points; it would be nice if you did the same

We have to keep paying 0.7% into the EU after we have left.

Agreed - we won’t pay the actual contribution. Please can you explain how it’s a benefit to save 0.7% in contributions but lose far more by not having frictionless trade

We have to stay under the jurisdiction of the ECJ

Agreed - we won’t (except when we end up agreeing to do so in order to get a deal with the EU) Please can you explain what ECJ decisions you didn’t agree with?

We will not be able to make our own trade deals

Agreed - we can (in theory). Please can you name a single country which we want to have a better trading relationship with, what we can offer / they would want in return, and why it would be a better deal than the EU could get

We will not be able to have a points system for immigration.

Agreed - we could (in theory). Please could you explain why that is preferable to applying the immigration brake we always could have done

As ever, it’s not about the headline statements it’s about weighing up the pros and cons of each. Something you are spectacularly incapable of doing copper

{We have to keep paying 0.7% into the EU after we have left.}
No, that stops when the UK either crashes out or after a transition period. This was factored in by Theresa and part of it is in the £39 Billion as at the time of calculation, Theresa and the EU negotiators had estimated a 2 year transition period.
If the UK leaves with no transition, or indeed with a transition that extends beyond IIRC the end of 2020 then that amount needs readjusting.

{We will not be able to make our own trade deals}
During transition I presume preparatory work can commence, bearing in mind trade deals take many years to come into fruition. The one recently announced by the EU has taken 20 years. I forget the other conditions that would apply during transition.

{We will not be able to have a points system for immigration.}
Anything can be negotiated AFTER the WA (or a very similar looking WA) is signed. However unless the hostile environment gets reversed, the chances are that many won't bother and combined with changes to industry a 'brain drain' will start, if it hasn't already.
So in a way, the Europeans that some say they don't want, will stay, and the higher earning professionals will go elsewhere. I presume this will make leavers happy?

Again, @Coppersulphate foolishly thinks Corbyn (prize twat) is a Remainer and loved by people who voted Remain.

This is the tariff code for Yak hides from China.
I didn't check if it was for selling to the EU or elsewhere, but even as a random search it tells me that if you wanted such things in quantity, you would be looking at a considerable time to prepare new trade deals as everyone who buys these will have an input on the negotiations.

{4104499090
Other tanned or crust hides and skins of bovine, equine animals, without hair on
Tariff & Duty
Import Restrictions
Landed Cost Calculator
CIQ Code

China Trade Data Customize
China Buyers
China Suppliers}

Seems most things are covered already.

Bear, as I have told you many times on these threads, of being it is the principle of being subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ that I object to. You keep asking me and I keep telling you.
I have never, as far as I am aware, been affected by a ruling of the ECJ. However I feel that UK citizens should not have to be subject to an EU court.

Ditto the money. Our government should be able to decide how we spend our money. The amounts are irrelevant. To me it is a tangible benefit that our government can spend our tax payers money according to the needs of this country. Now you could argue, and probably will, that they do not do so. But that is a different argument.

And I don't think Corbyn is a remainer. I just think he is a dangerous, incompetent, left wing idiot and I don't want him running this country.

Corbyn as PM would be almost as bad a remaining in the EU.

Bear, an immigration break would not take into account the needs of the country. We need to be able to bring in workers in shortage areas.
A points system will do this.

However I feel that UK citizens should not have to be subject to an EU court.

Yet you’re fine with the ECHR 🤔

I know it’s pointless discussing this with you. If, after all this time, you can’t see how fucking stupid it is to dislike the principle of something without considering what the price of your dislike of those principles is, you are never going to get it.

You might as well just admit you just don’t like foreigners and be done with it, because that’s all it boils down to.

I just hope you and all your fellow Leavers feel the impact the most. Only I know that’s not going to happen.

The stuff about courts and sovereignty is pretty much a tacit admission that there are no tangible benefits, only ideological ones, because the tangible impact of the ECJ on citizens' lives is minimal.

It is fine to have an ideological preference for Brexit but it would be better to be honest about it.