There really is no point trying to persuade Leavers....

[Closertotheheart]

As the title suggests really. There is no point trying to reason a debate with them as they are totally tunnel-visioned. Loads of them seem to think we should leave without a deal and go on to WTO rules.

They blame the Remainers in parliament for us having not left yet.

They blame Remainers in general for, well, seemingly anything and everything.

They blame the EU for us not having left yet.

They spout myth as if it was fact.

I despair. There really is no point trying to reason with them.

I'm at the point where I feel there is nothing left to say on the topic so let them have their 'victory' so at least they will have no one to blame.

Can I ask the Leavers on here, if we crash out with no deal on 31st Oct, who will you blame? Boris Johnson and Raab are already saying it'll won't be their fault, it'll be the EU's fault. What do you think, or maybe 'no deal' is your favourite outcome?

@HateIsNotGood

I do hope you come back. I really would like to try to see what you see with regard to Brexit promoting peace.

How can Raab and Johnson blame anyone else?

I know they will, but it defies all logic. Surely touting no deal which seems to be what every leaver I have encountered says they want, leaves the blame squarely at their door.

I can see it now: we want no deal, wto is the way to go.

A week later: it's the EU's fault we're in this mess.

Wonder how many leavers will name change on here come November. Not seen surferjet for a while...

Not seen surferjet for a while...

I’m not surprised.
As far as I know it’s only the Brexit threads where remain supporting posters discuss and deride leavers between themselves.
In other political threads people disagree violently and insults are hurled but posters are addressed directly rather than a group getting together to sneer amongst themselves.
Remainers outnumber leavers on these threads so they know they will have plenty of support.
So I don’t think it’s surprising if leavers stay away.

SurferJet loved to debate, Dapple. Granted their arguments were weak as hell, but they sure loved to debate regardless. I don't think he/she needs pity, he/she knew their own mind.

In other political threads people disagree violently and insults are hurled but posters are addressed directly rather than a group getting together to sneer amongst themselves.

And this irks me. Posters have been directly addressed all throughout this thread and no insults have been hurled. Nobody is sneering. Is this more Brexit logic? You can read what is put in front of you and still get the facts twisted?

Pretty sure surfer was female and she was the first to admit it was all about immigration.

There aren’t any leavers who still want Brexit at any price for whom it doesn’t just boil down to immigration.

Indeed closer, Leavers on this thread have been directly addressed throughout. They just become mysteriously busy when asked any questions.

I wonder if that's a symptom of Leave-syndrome. The facts and questions get too much so they leave the thread as well.

Bunnyfuller
You can read about the EU's Excessive Debt Procedure on their website - the EU definitely encourages austerity;

The corrective arm/Excessive Deficit Procedure

"The corrective arm of the Stability and Growth Pact ensures that Member States adopt appropriate policy responses to correct excessive deficits (and/or debts) by implementing the Excessive Deficit Procedure (EDP)."

ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/economic-and-fiscal-policy-coordination/eu-economic-governance-monitoring-prevention-correction/stability-and-growth-pact/corrective-arm-excessive-deficit-procedure_en

Article from The Independent Nov 2018;

"The EU is unhealthily biased toward austerity–that's why it's now in a budget standoff with Italy."
www.independent.co.uk/voices/europe-austerity-eu-facism-italy-matteo-salvini-league-five-star-movement-luigi-di-maio-a8619791.html

Surfer was keen on outlawing anti-Brexit sentiments and shutting down Channel4 for not BeLeaving, amongst other things. Happy to dish it out but not take it?

Closertotheheart
I wonder if that's a symptom of Leave-syndrome.The facts and questions get too much so they leave the thread as well.

Remainers just talk to themselves.

Clav - that cos we talk sense

Closer - you know what they say, 'Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness'.

Seriously though - this is the first time for months that I actually believe we really are going to Brexit.

We try to talk to Leavers but they just don't engage. You included. Just cut and paste your answers.
Do you accept that No Deal (not Leave - No Deal) would be economically dreadful and , if you do, what are you, as a Leaver doing to stop it? If you think it's not an economically dreadful option, why do you think this?

Clavi - we talk amongst ourselves as remainers, we don't necessarily talk to ourselves (though some might). At least if you do talk to yourself, you are conversing with your intellectual equivalent

What makes you say that about us leaving Clav? And do you mean leaving with no deal? What are your thoughts on this?

As bellini said, it would be good if you could post your opinion without cutting and pasting articles. I would like to hear your thoughts as you are one of the more vocal leavers. Will you be content with a no deal Brexit and why is that? Do you foresee any shortfalls in the economy and with business/trade? Can you put forward your own convincing arguments?

Do you accept that No Deal would be economically dreadful.

Not dreadful - the Bank of England will step in, the temporary tariffs regime will be implemented, extra ferries, air freight etc.will guarantee medical supplies, the delays at Dover will be minimal in any case, more continuity trade agreements will be signed with non-EU countries before October...and I still believe there might be a last minute deal with the EU.

I will be content with a no deal Brexit .
And I want Brexit because I want our laws to be made and enforced here in the UK.
I want to be free from the ECJ.
And I have never read the Sun or the Daily Mail. Not once ever.
I am under 65 and a member of the Tory party.
I have a masters degree and a professional job.

I have given up coming on these threads because the response is always the same.
I will now be jumped on and asked " name the law which has affected you" or "there is a court with the WTO" or what are you personally doing to ensure the economy doesn't collapse.

So, remainers , stay in your bubble and talk to yourselves and continue to misspell foreigners deliberately as if that somehow makes a point. It doesn't. It just makes you all look daft.
I will not be responding.

So Copper, thanks for your response. I've concluded you are happy with a no deal Brexit "just because" and that's about the depth of it.

Thanks for your honesty and clarity.

Well Clavi - when you put it that way.... it still sounds incredibly shite!

{So, remainers , stay in your bubble}
That's very kind of you, I will. At least my 'bubble' is full of Europeans.

no insults have been hurled
I think the following comments from this thread are pretty rude.
Also, maybe on this thread people have been addressed directly but there are plenty of threads where they’re discussed amongst remain supporting posters. I think you said you don’t come on Brexit threads much, so how would you know?

Rational thought and reality don’t enter into it.

it’s straight from the Leavers book of bollocks.

Nah, just twatishness! 😂

LifeContinues you're making yourself look silly.

What is true though is that leavers and especially 'Brexiteers' are still continuing to tell lies.

Also, maybe on this thread people have been addressed directly but there are plenty of threads where they’re discussed amongst remain supporting posters. I think you said you don’t come on Brexit threads much, so how would you know?

Because I read them loads in the run up to and after the referendum. Never engaged with anyone till now but I know the regular posters by their username.

Users have been addressed on this thread throughout and I have asked for thoughts from multiple posters.

If someone looks silly by posting nonsense, or spouts or believes lies, should we continue to go along with it? Would you prefer that?

Comforting lies are after all more preferable to inconvenient truths I suppose.