Westminstenders: Brace Yourself It's Gonna BeBoris

[RedToothBrush]

It seems inconceivable that Hunt can beat Johnson. And whilst we are all considering the horrors that Prime Johnson can bring...

Let's not forget Brexit, whats Brexit?

Already there is talk that Boris has gone soft on 31st Oct as an absolute. But he's also promised the earth to the ERG.

So what suits Boris best?

What does his ego demand?

What does Boris want his legacy to be?

Our fate rests on Boris's whims and personal desires.

And if you are Scottish, Muslim or otherwise not rich, white and male you might have reason to be concerned.

France for one isn’t going to let us extend again without a bloody good plan.

Well that's OK, I have a bloody good plan. Parliament lets us have a PV to decide whether we accept the terms of the W.A - thus discharging the mandate of 2016 - or we reject it and choose to stay in the EU. We vote one way or the other. Parliament ratifies it and we either revoke or enter the transition period.

The 5 million no dealers can piss and moan all they like, but we don't give them any air time because their opinion is not grounded in reality. The rest of the country moves on and - eventually - even they will realise they never gave a shiny shit about the EU and will get on with their lives.

{5 million people voted for BXP or UKIP.}
With the obvious problem that they were voting for something different. They were not voting for someone to represent them in the UK, but to go to Brussels to do whatever which has relatively little to do with the majority of UK life and certainly will not improve the NHS, kickstart the Northern Powerhouse or any other UK gov activity. Throughout this whole mess people have been creating 'answers' from the wrong questions.

We don’t hold the cards here
Who is the 'we'?

No offence pretzels but your plan is worth Jack shit.

I’d like it to happen but it’s not even off the ground yet.

Fine, pretend you can ignore them.

Only 5 million people bothered to turn out and vote for the brexit party. By contrast over 6 million signed the revoke petition and over 7 million voted for remain parties. Why are you so determined to listen to 5 million people over moderate leavers and all remainers? Why are you so afraid of them?

We is the UK

So... I'm imagining a post no deal world. Apocalyptic, revolutionary, overrun by anarchists....

But, at least, we could stick Cameron and Theresa in the stocks 🍅 🍅🥬 🥬

And a People's Trial for them both. What punishments should we enact?

I’d like it to happen but it’s not even off the ground yet.

No it's not off the ground. But people arguing over whether to make the leave option the reasonable and feasible W.A agreement or the utterly impossible to deliver and maintain No Deal (with added deaths) are part of the problem stopping it from getting off the ground.

You want it to happen - then start talking it up, not dragging it down.

pretend you can ignore them
They still haven't managed to win any seats in the HOC, so that's normally what happens.

We is the UK
I'm not convinced that the UK exists. But you're right that whatever this leaderless flailing state is, it definitely doesn't hold any cards.

Did anyone see the interview with Hunt, where he discussed a business that makes steel off road rims ? Where he said it was great business, but 10% tarriff would destroy the business. But he would do that if it was required.
Once my blood pressure returned to normal, something about it has stuck in my mind...... and I think it is because throughout this the narrative has not involved specifics and the consequences...... and wondered if he is trying to change the narrative..... maybe he thinks there will be a GE..... I am not sure, it just made me wonder....

I’ve been on the people’s vote marches. It makes fuck all difference if the political parties don’t get behind it with conviction.

You can’t argue with the illogical, irrational Leavers that are keeping this shit show alive yet they do actually hold the upper hand.

I’ve been on the people’s vote marches.

me too - and I'm going on a march in July and then the big one in October. It's important that we never give up the fight.

It makes fuck all difference if the political parties don’t get behind it with conviction.
Agreed - 100% hence the need to keep fighting - and writing. On here and on other political forums and also to mps. Because they'll never hear unless we refuse to shut up.

You can’t argue with the illogical, irrational Leavers that are keeping this shit show alive yet they do actually hold the upper hand.

Also agreed. But they hold the upper hand because people have listened to them and acted like their opinions were worthy of consideration. Actual elections show their real numbers are not that significant. The majority in parliament are against no deal. It's time to take the power by cutting them out of the debate. Sane MPs need to stop pandering to these imaginary legions of no dealers and people in the real world need to just cut them off and refuse to discuss their vision of fairyland with them.
The louder the voices out here telling MPs to stop pandering to no dealers and start paying to attention to reality are - the more likely they are to do it.
Even discussing the possibility of a vote on no deal tells MPs to keep on pandering, because it means we're all willing to play along with the no dealers' delusions. We just don't have time to argue about delusions - they need to be dropped, otherwise we get no where and it's accidental no deal in October.

The EU would almost certainly grant an extension for a PV or a GE

Some EU leaders have specifically said they won't extend for other reasons,
e.g. if the UK just wants to argue with itself, or attempt to renegotiate the WA

Letting No Deal happen just to teach the fuckwits a lesson won't work
(I linked on earlier threads to studies on the Backfire Principle)

and it woud hammer the poorest and most vulnerable in the Uk

pretzel whilst my heart entirely agrees with you, my head has been convinced that no deal, and show them what they’ve fucking caused, is the only option now.

That poll I linked upthread showed only a minority of even Tory voters want No Deal
In the country as a w hole, it's even lower

BUT, in a PV with murky money, psyops, Farage & BJ .... the fuckwits could win

Several months before the 2016 ref, Leave was well behind, about the level No Deal is now

linked on earlier threads to studies on the Backfire Principle

Leavers don’t give a toss about things like this.

Anyone with half a brain knows the poorest in society will come out worse here.

No one has a credible way forward though.

I’ve been on the people’s vote marches. It makes fuck all difference if the political parties don’t get behind it with conviction

Imho no one takes the blind bit of notice because everyone is soooo well behaved.
Smash up central London c/w tear gas and riot police and revoke will be on the cards.
The people of HK didn't get Carrie Lam/China to back down because they were nice.

bear Your head needs to read the recent research into how people hold onto irrational beliefs, including political ones

Facts just make them believe even harder

All the problems will be down to the EU, Remainer saboteurs / traitors / enemies of the people, the Bilderberg elite, Muslims .....

Bear If we were offered a P.V on no deal vs W.A I would be very much in the 'fuck em all' camp. I would not vote for the W.A under any circumstances because no version of brexit will ever be done in my name - and I am willing to take the consequences of that.

But whilst there is still a chance that we could have a fair vote between remain and a reasonable leave option - which gave leavers exactly what they voted for in 2016 ('leave' - and nothing else, they can make no more demands, it was not defined) but didn't destroy everything at once, then that is what I'll fight for.

Because - much as I want to watch the people who voted for this shit show suffer all they deserve (and I do - I have no interest in protecting the people who claim they want this, even if they are vulnerable) there is no point because they still won't learn. I cannot bear the frustration of listening to people who voted to suffer complain about suffering and blaming everybody but themselves. On top of how much they've already taken from me, it will be too much to stand.

BCF I’ve no doubt everything will be anyone’s fault excepts Leavers but at least they’ll see that the EU doesn’t need us more than we need them.

There’s no way out of this without a whole heap of misery.

I expect that Remainers smashing up Central London or rioting elsewhere would be like a genuine Reichstag Fire (the original was faked)

• an excuse to invoke Emergency Powers, ban all further demnstrations and pass laws witout Parliament

So, Brexit 100% their way. A gift

It won't just be Leavers who would suffer from No Deal

So would many Remainers

So would many of the immigrants, EU and non-EU, who never even got a vote

at least they’ll see that the EU doesn’t need us more than we need them.

I don;t even believe they'll come to learn this. They'll have their fake news telling them how the EU is failing , cawing over every job loss in Germany, every sniff of corruption in Italy - and they'll spread every joyous brexit new trade deal worth tuppence ha'penny with Tasmania, selling bobby pins far and wide. Like the leavers on here already do.

They're are like a cult waiting for the apocalypse - and when it fails to materialise they just shove the date back and don't ever examine the veracity of their belief. Leave is a cult and there is no getting through to them.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/23/joke-on-boris-johnson-fantasy-violence-league

It won't just be Leavers who would suffer from No Deal

So would many Remainers

I will definitely suffer from no deal. That is the consequence i am willing to take. I accept that other remainers may feel differently and opt for the W.A ... that is their choice, but I will not. I will happily listen to remainers complain about their suffering - but so help me, if a leaver tries it ...