Westminstenders: Brace Yourself It's Gonna BeBoris

[RedToothBrush]

It seems inconceivable that Hunt can beat Johnson. And whilst we are all considering the horrors that Prime Johnson can bring...

Let's not forget Brexit, whats Brexit?

Already there is talk that Boris has gone soft on 31st Oct as an absolute. But he's also promised the earth to the ERG.

So what suits Boris best?

What does his ego demand?

What does Boris want his legacy to be?

Our fate rests on Boris's whims and personal desires.

And if you are Scottish, Muslim or otherwise not rich, white and male you might have reason to be concerned.

BCF and pretzels I agree in principle with what you are saying but I think it’s pie in the sky to keep thinking rational thought is going to prevail here.

It isn’t

If I have the choice between no deal and revoke I’d obviously choose Remain.

A choice between no deal and WA I’d have to think long and hard whether I’d go for no deal or spoil my ballot paper.

I won’t vote for WA as I think it’s pointless.

I would never ever suggest Remainers vote for the WA in a PV

I was just saying why I think any PV should be Remain vs WA, not No Deal

I accept this may be politically unacceptable to the HoC, but imo we should still try

No deal cannot be taken off a PV.

It is the default choice anyway.

I think it v unlikely a PV would just be on the 2 Leave options, without Remain

(Although the govt and HoC are capable of any stupidity)

Did anyone see the interview with Hunt, where he discussed a business that makes steel off road rims ? Where he said it was great business, but 10% tarriff would destroy the business. But he would do that if it was required.

I wonder if Hunt is onto something here. Tell everyone the truth about Brexit but insist that you are going to do it anyway, because "democracy". Wait for the back-pedalling to start.

He has to do this to stand a chance against Johnson. But he might be onto something.

I'm just as gloomy as you as to what the reality is Bear - and I also don't trust that, in the extremely unlikely event they give us a P.V, parliament won't be stupid enough to offer us no deal as an option - despite the myriad legitimate reasons that they could. Because reason has left the building.

But the only thing I can actually do is try and shove reason back into our political discourse by talking sense into the ether. Maybe sway a few people - and maybe they can sway a few people and so on and so on. It's not much - but it's all I have. So I will keep on stating over and over that a PV is the only way to break the deadlock and that there is no point putting no deal on it - not because it will be a disaster but because it doesn't help, it creates more confusion not less - and maybe some people will agree. And maybe they will start talking about it to other people - who might agree - and so and so on. It might not have an effect - it probably won't make a difference - but it doesn't hurt to try and it might just make some people think.

That’s why I can’t see a PV working.

Even if you have 3 options (revoke , WA and no deal) and say that unless revoke gets a majority we go with the majority of the other 2 you still end up with a situation where just over 25% of the voting population make the choice for nearly 70 million people,

I expect that Remainers smashing up Central London or rioting elsewhere would be like a genuine Reichstag Fire (the original was faked)

• an excuse to invoke Emergency Powers, ban all further demnstrations and pass laws witout Parliament

We don't live in China.

My point is that the mirest threat of leaver violence get everyone frothing at the mouth that we must leave/democracy is at stake.. there is zero threat of remainers being violent, so they are ignored.

Squeaky hinge gets the most oil !

Aside, No-Deal cannot be on any ballot paper as it is undeliverable and too many people think it means we walk away with what we've got... even Jeremy Hunt thinks this.

{It won't just be Leavers who would suffer from No Deal}
No deal forces most of the rest of the EU to suffer too.

It would probably be too complicated to have a multi-choice PV, or an STV vote with the 3 options,
Almost certainly it would be 2 options only

No Deal can be omitted from a PV
Whether it is politically possible - whether the govt would agree to that - is uncertain.

{They'll have their fake news telling them how the EU is failing , cawing over every job loss in Germany, every sniff of corruption in Italy - and they'll spread every joyous brexit new trade deal worth tuppence ha'penny with Tasmania,}
Speaking of which, anyone seen Clavinova recently?

No Deal can be omitted from a PV

I’m out.

Whilst you are arrogant enough to think the default option can just be ignored - this discussion is pointless.

Excuse me asking but what is "Business that makes steel off road rims"? I don't understand??

No deal should of course be referenced as a consequence of failed democracy or however it should be presented, but no deal was not on the original referendum as there ALWAYS has to be some negotiation, but it should not be an option that can be freely chosen.

Omitting the default isn't ignoring it

We don't have to put it in; it is what happens if the HoC stays deadlocked and the EU get tired of extending

Or do you mean it is ignoring the Leavers who want it ?

tobee I expect they mean steel rims for the wheels of off-road vehicles

Steel Rims: Hunt said (in last few days) that it was acceptable for a very successful British business employing British people (& others like it) to fail if that was only way for Brexit to happen. Because the people's will must prevail. Here is the quote. Twitter is pointing out the company will just upsticks to EU country to keep trading.

You don’t have to have No Deal on the ballot paper because it’s the default.

What about having:

In order to avoid the default position of No Deal, would you choose:
A) WA, or
B) Remain?

Since the EU have already defined what a 'no deal' crash out would look like it is already a form of 'deal' which is basically sit down, shut up and do as we say until you have signed the WA, at which point negotiations may begin.

{Titan Steel Wheels, a subsidiary of Titan Europe Plc, is the market leader in the manufacture and supply of wheels for the ‘off-highway’ vehicle industry.}

Making the rims for tractors, earthmovers etc. A subsidiary of a European based company selling worldwide.

If the majority vote in a PV was for WA, surely Parliament would have to accept it and pass it, just like they accepted the Ref Leave result?

{But how can any PV include the WA when parliament has rejected it time after time.}
650 or thereabouts in parliament are against it (maybe) and the representatives of 450 Million are 'for' it, you do the maths.