Westminstenders: Brace Yourself It's Gonna BeBoris

[RedToothBrush]

It seems inconceivable that Hunt can beat Johnson. And whilst we are all considering the horrors that Prime Johnson can bring...

Let's not forget Brexit, whats Brexit?

Already there is talk that Boris has gone soft on 31st Oct as an absolute. But he's also promised the earth to the ERG.

So what suits Boris best?

What does his ego demand?

What does Boris want his legacy to be?

Our fate rests on Boris's whims and personal desires.

And if you are Scottish, Muslim or otherwise not rich, white and male you might have reason to be concerned.

May's deal was realistic.

I’m not sure what kind of plus that is given that she couldn’t get it through Parliament, or even the support of her MPs.

It was unrealistic in that sense.

Since May's 'deal' isn't a deal as such, and by negotiations during the proposed transition period, anything from the hardest of hard Brexits, to a Brino were possible (Mr Barnier's staircase diagram) apart from basically losing many things (which leaving implies) there was something that could be negotiated within it.

As the excellent EU were involved it was likely to be as intelligent and open ended compromise as could be eked out from May’s red lines. That is really to their credit rather than the British government.

Ooh I don't like Westminsterenders peeps arguing who is worse out of Cameron & May!! Everybody is, not surprisingly, stressed this Friday night!

With you there Tobs

People get a grip we are arguing over .....WHO.IS.LEAST.WORST.

We are better than that. They are equally shit in different ways we can agree that surely ?

I entirely agree it’s a teenage argument that’s why I gave up on it.

It’s the political equivalent of snog marry avoid.

I despise Cameron because he created the problem
I despise his arrogance
I despise the outrageous irresponsiblity of his gamble
I despise the privileged class that continues to rule us and the deference they continue to receive

Maybe the problem is that the Uk never had a proper revolution, in which the old ruling class were chucked out / strung up / guillotined
Charles I wasn't really enough

In Germany and listening to the EU leaders, he is 100% held to blame for Brexit,
held up as an egregious example of an arrogant upper class twit

In contrast, May gets exasperated sympathy

The WA is just an exit deal and would have been similar whatever final trade deal we chose

Ivan Richards castigated fanatical Brexiters but also fanatical Remainers, wheen he laid the blame for No deal

I would settle for that over No Deal
I would settle for a Norway++ Brexit

I would like to Revoke BUT
The Uk remaining in the EU would be a continuing festering sore that disrupts EU business
Richards spoke of how for several years before Brexit, his instructions were always to block everything, to be negative

Many in Germany think that even trade is not worth the continuing hassle and that the UK needs to Brexit, to grow up, before it will be fit to Rejoin

Richards spoke of how for several years before Brexit, his instructions were always to block everything, to be negative

I believe that hadn't always been the case - only since 2010.

Ivan Rogers, BigChoc

Took a chilled break from Westminsterenders to read a good online article from The Financial Times by Simon Kuper, who was at Oxford just after Boris. I recommend it. It's a long read but focuses more on the politics and the Union than the Bullingdon. It's called How Oxford university shaped Brexit - and Britain's next prime minister.

The WA is dead.

Will do thanks tobee

Hunt attended Oxford and certainly comes from that upper class strata - admiral's son etc -

but didn't belong to the Bullingdon club hooligans

He's another racist shit, but looks a much more stable personality

He might enable the Tory party to survive longer - which is a negative

Poor old Boris .......seems he's having a bit of strife at home with his new love.....perhaps they are arguing about what colour their bedroom should be at Number 10?

sos Maybe I'm cynical, but if he loses his chance at No 10, I'm expecting an immediate split there

Can't think of another reason for an intelligent attractive much younger woman to shack up with such a shit and such a track record of being a shit

Thatcher liked Cecil Parkinson and tried to keep him in her cabinet,
after his secretary said he got her pregnant, then dumped her

However, his career never recovered after iirc the "Tory Ladies" refused to applaud his speech at the next Conference.

Has the Tory party decided anything goes in private / become so male it doesn't matter ?
Or could BJ decide he doesn't want to risk being booed at his own conference by a vociferous section of indignant women ?

Be interesting to see BCF. Cecil Parkinson was a while ago. Not sure how the Tory Party has changed in that respect.

I reckon Johnson will bail out. But if he carries on, he will have to be accountable and everyone is watching. Not a thing he would be used to I'm thinking.

His bluff and bluster will not hold much sway anywhere outside the UK. Well apart from Trump to whom he will always bow.

What a joke this whole thing is.

"Tory whips investigate abusive texts between Tory MPs"

I missed this - anyone have details ?

Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky

Tory leadership race day 1

• Police in midnight call to Johnson flat over row with his partner
• Minister Mark Field suspended over physical handing of protestor
• Tory whips investigate abusive texts between Tory MPs
• Tory MP ousted by constituents over expense fraud

I assume it was the text Antoinette Sandbach received BCF It was on here yesterday - can't remember what is said exactly, but something along the lines of her being a disgrace and it was time she left the party.

Plausible.
Thanks, pretzels

Okay....hopefully this isn't a sign of me being turned but there's a lot of posts on here generalising about Tories (all Boris loving Leavers).

And I have to say that in the Tory party groups I've joined there are a fair few stereotypical Tories.

But....there are also a fair few reasonable people.

Leavers that you can have a decent polite and civil debate with, I disagree with them but at least they can string intelligible thoughts together on the matter.

And then there are Tories who would be right at home on this thread....I produce the following three exhibits from a Conservative Members Group...

Toby Young @toadmeister**
Not long ago, members of the Left were concerned about the surveillance state. Now, they press their ears to the wall and turn on their tape recorders when they hear their Tory neighbours arguing and contact the @guardian. They’re a pound shop version of the Stasi

Toby Young doesn't seem to realise that IF Johnson was not bullying his girlfriend, there would have been nothing to listen to or record in the first place.

Once again, people are more interested in questioning the motives of the messenger, rather than the content of the recording.

As for which PM has been worse? Why in the world is that worth arguing over? Cameron and May were symbiotic cheeks of the same backside.

Arguing who was worse gives the other some leeway that they don't deserve. Both were shocking. Both are likely to remembered with fond nostalgia if Johnson becomes PM. He too seems to be sucking up to the ERG.......despite knowing how well that worked for his predecessors.

All of them put party before country. Whether starting this entire shitshow or continuing it, all are responsible. Why blame one more when it is perfectly acceptable to be fair and loathe them all?

Very interesting developments!
Will be interesting to see how the MSM follows up with this - we all know if they chase him about it he won't get 'off' but if they move on to the next he will - a la Trump.

Yesterday on R2 a caller suggested the climate change protester (who had been scanned by security on entry to the event and had announced to the room she was part of Greenpeace and a peaceful protester) should have been "tackled to the floor and had her nose broken" which got a "oh! Right!" from Vine and no more said. Song break. Nothing else mentioned.

This country is full of excusers of the male beating variant. BJ is likely having an affair (IIRC previous thread suggested he was doinking someone in Camberwell - may have the area wrong) and current squeeze has outlived her usefulness. She's only realising she was a bit part now and he is hoping to have a Trump "grab em by the pussy" moment. How far, wonders he, will the public let me go? All a game.

Another BBC thing - whenever they interview Conservative party members, they always go for the most conservative they can, by which I mean older and with some sort of standing in the party, chairmen/women of local Conservative associations and so on. There was a panel of three they kept having back on PM, and they all plumped for BJ (one a bit reluctantly). I’m sure there are members who are appalled by him, but we don’t hear from them. I’ve never voted Tory, nor ever would, but I certainly don’t demonise Tory voters or members, they are perfectly entitled to their views and opinions, as is anyone.

May's deal was realistic. Nobody liked it, but it was realistic.

It was realistic in the sense that it was the best available however it was nit what she had promised was possible.

Her downfall was continuing to promise the moon on a stick at every opportunity then only actually being able to deliver the reality.

375 posts already... sheesh.