Westminstenders: Johnson v Stewart

[RedToothBrush]

Debate time.

Westministenders !

If your longterm partner were an MP voting in a party leadership election, would you expect ( / insist) they told you afterwards how they had voted ?

Tom Newton Dunnn@tnewtondunn*

Theresa May’s spokesman reveals when she says she’s told nobody who she’s voting for to succeed her as PM, “that includes her husband”.

If your longterm partner were an MP voting in a party leadership election, would you expect ( / insist) they told you afterwards how they had voted

He'd tell me, without me having to ask. We talk about these things as part of deciding our own opinions, cos it's helpful.

I also don't think he'd necessarily vote for an option I was spitting feathers over to a degree I had steam coming out my ears, even if that was his first choice. He'd want an explanation why as to see what my logic was. If my argument was good enough, I think he'd reconsider.

We certainly don't agree on everything political. We definitely have different views and don't always vote the same way, but we certainly respect each others political logic.

Plus he listens to me more about politics than he did even a few months back because the penny has dropped I usually have the latest news, comment or issue that I can just reel off (bore him with) and I'm a fountain of bloody useless nonsense.

I think it inconceivable that May has talked it over with her husband. Even if she hasn't explicitly told him, who she has voted for, he knows because they've talked over her thought process.

However he's off the hook from the world going "nudge nudge, so how did she vote. We know she told you"

Unfortunately, life could get much harder after No Deal

Couldnt agree more BCF, as ghost says (I'm paraphrasing, sorry Ghost), its going to be harder for them to hide the batshit level of crazy they are about Brexit without RS on the ballot

I still want our remainer unicorn of revoke to happen, I'm not convinced a PV is the way to go but I would rather a Corbyn government after brexit than I would a tory government because if I'm honest a no deal brexit and a tory government I'm pretty convinced it will be the death of me

So he dropped a rope ladder out from his office window, then pretended he'd locked himself out. MPs all need one special story people can tell.

It looks as though Rory the Tory has handed over his baton to Philip Hammond, who has popped out of the woodwork to tell it like it is: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48699594

Mr Hammond is set to say in a speech at the annual Mansion House dinner in the City of London on Thursday that a no-deal Brexit would soak up £26.6bn that has been set aside that could otherwise be spent by an incoming prime minister. In a BBC debate on Tuesday, leadership candidates promised tax cuts and increased spending on public services. However, a no-deal Brexit would mean that was not possible, and would also leave the UK economy "permanently smaller", Mr Hammond will say.

Still mainly lurking here but following it all religiously.
Can anyone direct me to some balanced resources to share with my DH? He firmly believes that in being in Europe we are “shackled to a corpse” and the the EU is corrupt and is responsible for us losing our manufacturing to cheaper countries and that Germany is about to drag the entire region into recession and that the EU has ruined Spain, Italy and Greece by dictating their budgets etc etc. He also believes that the EU is obsessed by federalisation and the EU army (despite our vetoes). Help lovely Westminstenders peeps!

Sadly I don't keep a cache of links (I think some do though!) but I wouldn't be surprised if, even with links, your DH will not read them or will say they are Project Fear. You can produce govt papers on economics and Leavers still don't believe what they say. It's cognitive dissonance stemming from the whole "who needs experts" catchphrase, alongside Trump's revival of "fake news". Only sources from the Leave campaign are viable to Leavers. Anything doubting Brexit will not even be considered, no matter how rational it is.
Good luck though. I couldn't live with that! - bit early?

I suppose a 'starter' diagram could be the pie chart showing the 0.7% of GDP that goes to the EU compared to all the other UK spending.
There is a thread (lonely's?) with a load of pictures which will have a copy. That should be in the Brexit section, may be 2nd or 3rd page back?

Your Dh would drive me mad.

How can he believe two contradictory things? The EU is a corpse but at the same time it’s planning to form an EU army (as you mentioned we have a veto).
Corpses rarely make plans to form armies.

Brexit seems to have given the EU extra strength. There appears to be greater desire amongst the EU 27 to Remain in the EU (but to stay and reform). This greater desire to stay seems to have been brought about by the disaster that Brexit is panning out to be.

Regarding manufacturing, just get him to look up just in time technology across the EU. The traditionally strong pound held manufacturing back more than the EU.

Regarding Greece, Italy & Spain, if the EU is so bad for them - how come they don’t want to leave the EU?

He’s coming up with daft arguments and asking you to prove them incorrect, I’m not surprised you are frustrated with him. It’s his job to prove his argument not yours to prove him incorrect. Someone way more knowledgeable (and awake) will be along soon with a more useful explanation

Rather early for 🍷 but I’ll take a ☕️! To be fair he acknowledges he can afford to hold such views as he also firmly believes that parliament will never “allow” us to leave!

Can anyone direct me to some balanced resources to share with my DH?

Sorry you have a DH who needs to ignore most MPs soundbites and 'news'papers. My DH is like this too but I have helped him with lots of articles to read!
Perhaps yours will commit to spending at least 30 mins a day reading from proper sources like the economist, the LSE, Oxford Uni publications! .
Trade publications are good for summaries as they show industry specialised knowledge and issues..The scholarly section of google search reveals properly researched material but often you can only read extracts unless he will pay to subscribe

Here are some random reading ideas..!

•decline~manufacturing
•rise~and~fall~manufacturing
•article~on~food
•article~on~economic~performance
•OUP~article
•article~on~farming
•article~on~food
•farming
•overseas~investment
•food~drink
•article

'Charting our nemesis' is a thread with,,,,,charts!
Near the bottom of this current 'page' of Brexit stuff.

{Regarding manufacturing, just get him to look up just in time technology across the EU}
The single market and common regulations mean that someone can make a product in England and sent it to anywhere in the EU, and another 40+ countries as the trading standards are at least equivalent and recognised throughout.

.

There is someone other than Philip who knows who Theresa May will be voting for: she's away to Brussels and has given both her proxy votes to Charles Walker of the 1922 Committee

Help lovely Westminstenders peeps!

I’m not sure anyone can tbh.

Ian Dunt’s book is good, Gary Gibbon’s book.

But if DH hasn’t engaged with reality after 3 years, he’s hardly going to start now is he?

BJ is simply dangerous; a blundering British Trump with a comical veneer hiding the nastiness
So avoiding him as PM is my no. 1 wish in this contest

Totally agree with this. It doesn't surprise me, however, that he is popular with the Tory membership OR that they will sacrifice almost anything to achieve Brexit.

It feels (to me at least) that the Tory membership and those in the wider public who share their opinions, (Brexit Party supporters) are very, very afraid.

Afraid of losing the ideological battle regarding what the UK actually is, what it stands for, its values, and its place in the world.

Afraid of acknowledging the reality - that the UK is interdependent with the EU but can be strong within this interdependence - choosing instead to believe that the UK's past glories were achieved by deserved ability, rather than by oppression and colonialism.

Most of all, I think they are afraid because they know that the world has changed, irrespective of their wish it were otherwise, and that they are a dying breed. They KNOW deep down that their opinions belong in the past. Their own echo chambers enable them to try to convince themselves otherwise for a little longer. That is all.

I am not happy about the length of time it will take before these views become truly minority - my life as a disabled woman will become harder in the meantime - but I firmly believe that they will be overridden by sanity in the longer term. The political attitudes of our young almost guarantee it.

I don’t think BJ will be PM for long.

Reminder that the Brecon and Radnorshire recall petition closes today - count will be tomorrow and expected to be announced in HoC tomorrow afternoon.

So could be the first challenge for a new PM, as BXP has said it would field a candidate in a by-election.

I agree, too. He can’t do what he’s promising - none of them can, of course, but Boris is the laziest and most bombastic. It will all blow up for him quicker than any of the others.

I’m still most fearful of Gove. He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing who hates the GFA. And competent enough to cause a lot of harm quickly, as we saw in education.

So could be the first challenge for a new PM, as BXP has said it would field a candidate in a by-election.

Continuing UKIPs phenomenal electoral breakthrough into Westminster ?

Corpses rarely make plans to form armies.

therewillbeadequatefood this raised a smile.

Well said JoannaCuppa.

I hope the young people pick up the baton and run with it. Things like Global warming, will only accelerate by human actions, however much Trump and his fellow travellers deny it.

Fellow Travellers is usually a term used for people hanging on the tails of Communists, but I think should also apply to the extreme right wingers too.

Interesting article (and a perspective we've covered on these threads) on why BXP has a male problem highlighting the draw is less tax and less public spending, which women don't back - often supporting welfare and health spending. Then there's the age ratios and Farage's "bloke down the pub" persona and women somehow aren't flocking... Glimmer of hope? Although when you have the 2 most prominent parties led by rich, bigoted, misogynistic while males known for lying and cheating on their wives it doesn't say much for our morals as a country

So could be the first challenge for a new PM, as BXP has said it would field a candidate in a by-election.

I know that this is one the LibDems will be heavily targetting - didn't they hold the seat before? They will be able to rustle up the troupes on the ground to throw everything at it. Will the rebadged UKIP party be able to do this?