Westminstenders: Johnson v Stewart

[RedToothBrush]

Debate time.

Also delighted Stewart is out, now the Tories and their disasterous Brexit have nowhere to hide.

At least his running exposed the centrists willingness to support an austerity endorsing MP for their own shortsighted ends.

This will take the form of a short informal update on the situation...

Well, that'll be very short then: SNAFU.

I don't think Scotland will have to wait too long if we No Deal to see the devastating effects . How long would an Indy ref take to set up? Will they be able to have a non-legally binding ref too?

Ahh but not for an "advisory" referendum?

I really hope Boris has been waking up screaming at the realisation he's going to be prime minister. Just as we are!

"At least his running exposed the centrists willingness to support an austerity endorsing MP for their own shortsighted ends."

Avoiding No Deal is not shortsighted

No Deal will hammer the economy and increase hardship for the vulnerable for many years to come

Unless of course you believe in the Second Coming of Jeremy Corbyn to save us all somehow

We centrists supported the candidate who would try to avoid the greatest harm

All Tories supported austerity and benefit cuts; those policies were in their 2010 & 2015 manifestos
and benefit-bashing remains ever popular with much of the public, even on MN

Disaster Socialists aparently want the most disastrous possible Tory PM and the worst possible Brexit,
so that they can then be elected to bring in "True Socialism"

but it's a bloody ruthless way of getting there,
a lot of collateral damage

Surely we aren't suggesting that when HoC told Scotland Leave wouldn't happen purely because the ref was advisory that they might find a legal issue with Scotland doing the same?

Many Tories are panicking in case BJ is followed by JC as PM

Who knows ?
but this Brexit mess gives him his best chance

lonelytired Westminster tells Scotland what to do
It doesn't work the other way round

Only the DUP can do that - and probably only until the next GE

We centrists supported the candidate who would try to avoid the greatest harm

I guess David Cameron would be classed as a centrist and he ushered in austerity and let the genie out the bottle wrt Brexit.

Nobody other than the Tories, still fearful of Farage and the millions who follow the Brexit party have had any control since 2016. Public opinion hasn't shifted a great deal either. Stewart wasn't going to change any of that.

Cameron most certainly was NOT a centrist

There seems to be a widespread impression that social liberalism and concern about climate change / the environment make someone of the left or centre
And of course being filmed hugging a cute furry animal

WRONG

Left / right is bassically about money - who gets it:
economic policy, welfare policy, public spending, taxation levels.....

i.e. whether you want to increase the wealth gap / don't give a damn, or reduce it

Individual politicians can rarely achieve massive shift in public opinion for positive reasons;
it is usually for purely negative reasons

e.g. whipping up hatred / fear against scapegoats

I thought you lot would appreciate that one

Brexit - if it ever happens - will be the most significant event affecting the UK since WW2
It will affect the economy for years, probably decades

• prices, standards of living, how much the govt has to spend on welfare (even if it wants to), the NHS, care services ....

So choosing the PM who will carry out the least harmful Brexit is the most important issue we've had for decades

Although I certainly preferred Rory, my more practical choice has always been Gove, ^
as the most competent and the Brexiter who has the most understanding of the issues

That's quite separate to my absolutely despising what he has deliberately done in the past

BJ is simply dangerous; a blundering British Trump with a comical veneer hiding the nastiness
So avoiding him as PM is my no. 1 wish in this contest

Those who really know BJ all despise him as a serial liar

Those who have worked with him all tell of his total incompetence and chaos
Even Graylng would do better !

Max Hastings comment about people being "star crazed" seems particularly pertinent.

If he reaches the final 2, Gove has the knowledge to surgically dissect BJ in the hustings

However the Tory members probably won't care

Councillor Charlotte Leach @CharLeach24x
It’s a real shame @RoryStewartUK is out of the leadership contest. It was really refreshing to see someone so passionate about reaching out to non-Conservative voters & doing things differently #RoryWalksOn

He’s not an MP I know particularly well but I do have a great story from when I worked in Parliament for @SeemaKennedy. Our office was next door to Rory’s on the 5th floor in Norman Shaw North.

One evening I was working late in the office on my own. There was a knock on the door & it was @RoryStewartUK who told me that he had locked himself out of his office and and asked if he could use our office for a meeting.

I said it was no problem but before I had a chance to say anything else he walked straight across the office and climbed out of the 5th floor window and disappeared.

At this point I panicked thinking that surely he must have fallen and what if people thought I had pushed him 😂

Then, before I know it he comes walking back into my office through the main door, picks up his stuff and leaves. He had somehow managed to scale the side of the building and break into his office through the window.

I have honestly never been more shocked in my life. Looking out of the window there was essentially nothing to hold onto so to this day I have no idea how he managed to do it but I was suitably impressed! #RoryWalksOn

if somehow Javid pulled of the Leadership and became PM it would be one in the eye for President Trump. What is not to like?

However if BJ becomes PM and duly makes a mess, we can cut out the 80% voted for Brexit malarky - 160,000 or fewer Tories voted for this shambles.

BigChoc - I think in Indyref2 when it happens, some will be put off the idea of independence because of Brexit and some will be all the more determined that we need it or have moved from No to Yes because of the way Scotland's vote has been ignored and to escape the coming clusterfuck.

I know some No to Yes people (the friend I've talked about who voted No so that Scotland could stay in the EU as part of the Union and a high profile Labour lawyer, Mike Dailly) but I know that there are some Yes to No people around too.

And No, many Scots haven't forgotten that lie threat promise that the only way for Scotland up stay in the EU was to vote No.

I have a strong feeling that Nicola has been doing a lot of work under the radar with the EU and EFTA (as has the lovely Alyn Smith) and been getting a lot warmer reception

But even though many SNP members want Indyref2 sooner rather than later, I think Nicola is right to resist and make it later rather than sooner (quite apart from the fact that she needs agreement to a Section 30 notice).

I don't think they have any intention of running an unauthorised referendum. The last one had legal standing (and wasn't just advisory, unlike the EU Referendum ). The only thing I would change (and to give myself credit, I also thought it in 2014), is that the majority for such a major constitutional change should be a minimum of 60:40 (dh disagreed with me: he said that a 0.1% majority would do him )

I agree that an issue with major consequences for most people should have at least 60% voting for it

However, we're out of date ...
Brexiters have now established that 51.9% is an overwhelming Will of the People which must be carried out, or it is all a plot by the elite to stop us

Rory "climbed out of a 5th floor window "
"Looking out of the window there was essentially nothing to hold onto"

Yes, that is James Bond territory.
Blown his cover !