Westminstenders: Johnson v Stewart

[RedToothBrush]

Debate time.

Yes, it was Lib Dem up until 2015. Davies has a majority of 8000.

Although when you have the 2 most prominent parties led by rich, bigoted, misogynistic while males known for lying and cheating on their wives it doesn't say much for our morals as a country

But women still vote for them

For all the frothing about trans rights, there must have been a considerable number of women who voted Tory knowing the implications of the rape clause (for example).

I’m still most fearful of Gove. He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing who hates the GFA. And competent enough to cause a lot of harm quickly, as we saw in education.

Me too, Somer. The way he rants frightens me, it's like he's full of hatred and anger. Also, he actually believes in Brexit in some kind of ideological way, as opposed to Boris who couldn't give a fuck either way, and Hunt who voted remain. I have my doubts about anyone who believes in Brexit tbh. I don't know enough about Sajid Javid but I'm wary of those who think they achieved everything themselves.

By the way, whenever you hear about tech solutions to the Irish border, remember what a fist the government made of Age-ID checks for porn ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/20/bureaucratic_error_leads_to_p0rn_block_delay/

The British government is expected to announce an indefinite delay to its controversial legislation requiring age verification from porn users.

According to Sky News, Secretary of State for the Department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) Jeremy Wright will announce the delay today.

The report stated that regulator, the British Board of Film Classification, was told of the development on Wednesday afternoon.

^Under The Digital Economy Act 2017, commercial pornographic websites are required to implement controls that prevent individuals under the age of 18 from accessing content from 15 July.
Archetypal hacker in a hoodie (is this how we all must surf pron from now on?)^

But don't worry, the government hasn't suddenly decided that amassing a huge database of people's personal details is a security risk, ethically questionable, or just plain unpractical.

No, according to the report by former Reg vulture Alexander Martin, the holdup is due to DCMS having failed to notify the European Commission in time, undermining the legal basis of age verification.

(contd).

Incidentally, little story showing that politicians do have an influence in society ..

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/18/cocaine-user-spared-jail-judge-says-should-not-suffer-michael/

A judge allowed a class A drug user to walk free from court after announcing he should “suffer no more for dabbling in cocaine” than Michael Gove.

Judge Owen Davies QC said the convicted criminal should not be punished more severely than the Tory leadership contender, who has admitted taking the drug at parties twenty years ago.

(contd)

Might be worth seeing if a decent journalist can get Goves views on this Have to be a foreign one, of course.

Scariest bit is why it takes them so long to count up 300 odd votes and announce it , they must have to put all their shoes and socks back on presumably to count that high !

DGR women do vote for them, but not as many as men. I've been very interested in why a lady I know voted leave (not my authoritarian teacher friend who's kid threatens school friends with his dad's gun ). This lady is keen on animal rights, long time veggie and owns her own house. She said to me just after the ref that she thought she had been "hoodwinked" as she doesn't "trust any of them" yet now is back to posting about how badly we treat our cattle. For women like her they have been specifically targeted about an emotive issue and spun a tale about how bad the EU is for animal welfare. They haven't looked into what the rest of the world does because they don't see the need - we will be our own masters! It's propaganda.

For women like her they have been specifically targeted about an emotive issue and spun a tale about how bad the EU is for animal welfare.

On the same theme a couple of years back I heard a BBC radio programme about abattoirs. Local ones have been closed down, causing more stress to the animals which now have to be driven further to slaughter. Yet again the story had been put about that it was all to do with the EU, but in fact the prog showed that yet again, it was our government adding extra rules, and using the EU as a convenient excuse.

Just saw Andrew Bridgen (or was it Mark Francois? They're both red faced, chubby, middled aged angry Englishmen, so difficult to tell apart ) on Sky News trying to claim it was the WA that breached the GFA as "it changed the constitutional status of NI"

He was challenged on that and told that what he said was factually incorrect - but that just illustrates the lies mistruths the ERG are prepared to spread.

I'd be willing to bet he hasn't even read the GFA (quite short), let alone the WA (very long)

Yet again the story had been put about that it was all to do with the EU, but in fact the prog showed that yet again, it was our government adding extra rules, and using the EU as a convenient excuse.

Even the Age verification cock up I flagged upthread is being blamed on the EU. And we're leaving ...

Looks like Hammond is still stoically trying to be an increasingly lone voice against No Deal as his speech today warns about Scottish independence. I did hear Grieve on BBC Kent this morning saying he had no idea who to vote for now Rory is out. He clearly stated that the trouble was the ones left were all lying about Brexit, although some had bad ideas on tax reforms that he found frightening which helped a little in his decision.

QueenMabby
Can anyone direct me to some balanced resources to share with my DH?

You might want to find some different links to the ones posted by lonleyplanetmum... your dh might notice that Martina Lawless and Edgar Morgenroth are both based in Dublin (front page of their report), Holger Breinlich and Elsa Leromain have degrees from German and French universities and Yannis Varoufakis is a Greek economist. He might also wonder whether Giusepppe Forte, Gianmarco Ottaviano and John Van Reenen would rather we didn't leave the EU.

Tick tock - not many working days left, in practice:

EUCO June is today+tomorrow

The next scheduled EUCO isn't until 17-18 October, 2 weeks before Brexit Day

The next PM needs to get his arse into gear very quickly,
but BJ is a very lazy arse

The hustings for the last 2 will take a month, so PM appointed end July,
followed v quickly by probable NC vote and then the summer recess.

MPs come back briefly in September,
then recess until conference season finishes
and return 2nd week October

Just in time for Boris to write out a (plausible ?) request to EUCO for an extension
..... Unless he has basked in conference adulation and promised No Deal just for the applause and lolz

Will be interesting to see migration from UK since 2016, particularly a breakdown of qualifications and expertise we have sacrificed to the Brexit Gods.

Yes, but the issue there is the govt adding rules implies we had power all along...so they can't compute that argument.

They must have missed the memo that all of EU countries want to break up the Union then? Or are they all united again now in Leaver's minds? Just to 'bully' us, perhaps?

Yes, but the issue there is the govt adding rules implies we had power all along...so they can't compute that argument.

This doesn't stop them. The one benefit of Brexit I can see is that the lazy excuse of the EU doesn't allow us to do this that and the other will no longer be valid. I don't expect the Rees-Moggs and Johnson and Farage's of the world to then start complaining that the USA doesn't allow us to do - whatever. Whatever the US dictates in their book will be good, or certainly while there is a Republican President.

I can't put into words how much I want whoever becomes PM to jet off to Brussels and find a sign saying "Closed for holidays. Back 1/11/2019" in the window.

It would certainly put a rocket up UK politics. Especially since the main question the rest of the world would be asking is "what part of don't waste this time" did you not understand.

I am sure more Gallic minds have already thought that too

It would be a well deserved slap in the face for the UK with the ensuing no deal leading to a real shake up ?

We live in hope. Well I do.

QueenMabby You could inform your DH that the world has moved on and that the days of medium size countries trading on their own have long since passed

Countries around the world are moving to join their regional trade blocs - geography matters - while we are the only ones leaving ours.

As a nation highly depndeent on trade, the UK needs to belong to a trade bloc,
so it is a choice between the US or the EU.
Guess which one gives us a vote and which one treats us like a poodle

The reason why even the remaining 5 candidates are mumbling about renegotiating, instead of No Deal,
is because 50% of our trade is with the EU and another 20-30% is with countries using EU deals.

No Deal will hammer the economy and most people will be worse off
However, a wealthy minority will do very well.....

The one benefit of Brexit I can see is that the lazy excuse of the EU doesn't allow us to do this that and the other will no longer be valid

Life isn't that simple. The second we're out, all woes will still be the dastardly EU. Now "punishing" the UK for being so wonderful. Just think of how many posters on MN still insist everything is Labours fault - and they haven't been in power for nearly a decade.

Also, don't be surprised if we do leave to hear a faint but growing narrative as time goes on that any problems will be because the dastardly EU "threw us out" / "won't let us in". In much the same way there was quite a sentiment in the 60s that the EEC was denying the UK it's birthright at the head of Europe.

The only consistency about Leaver thinking is it's oxymoronic. In so many ways.

BigChoc my money is on Boris doing diddly-squat and us crashing out. He might plan a big street party I suppose .

As people on another thread commented - he is good at delegating to others. Who those others will be is more likely to be what he spends the first few weeks in power deciding, I suspect.

DG I do NOT want the UK PM to land in Brussels or any E27 capital and try to renegotiate the exit deal

Because it would mean we are totally screwed:

The PM would either be knowingly using this as a trumped-up excuse for No Deal,
or would be genuinely that dumb

Both possibilities are dreadful for the country and would bring me no amusement

Yes DGR, the narrative will turn as it did with Cameron from "he didn't negotiate well enough" to "the EU didn't let him have what he asked for".

DG I do NOT want the UK PM to land in Brussels or any E27 capital and try to renegotiate the exit deal

Well that seems to be the plan so far. Certainly for public consumption. It's what Boris appears to be promising.

So with that in mind, I like the idea that he at least has to try it for the Daily Mail if not the country.

Incidentally I see the Evening Standard has come out for Boris. Which suggests Gorgeous George must think he'll fuck it up right royally too.

What is even scarier than Boris as PM is who he will put in his cabinet, more ERG types and goodbye to pro EU types like Hammond and Gauk.

"there was quite a sentiment in the 60s that the EEC was denying the UK it's birthright at the head of Europe."

That's the problem:

The UK can't cope with being the #2 or #3 country in a bloc,
or even being the #1 country like Germany, which cannot - despite Brexiter fantasy - actually order the other members to give us cake

Working with others, working to get a consensus that everyone can live with,
sometimes sacrificing some economic benefit to help a small country in great need - e.g. Ireland over the backstop

.... That's not in British political culture of FPTP winner takes all and no federal system - Westminster / English MPs dominating Scotland