Westminstenders: Johnson v Stewart

[RedToothBrush]

Debate time.

The tie. Everyone is still talking about the tie

Rory speaks the most honesty .Taking the tie off was embarrassing- one of those hackneyed attempts at a brand identity. - like when an X factor contestant does all their performances barefooted.

Gove scares me as much as Boris but in a different way. I know Gove fucked education. I have a child in primary school, step children in secondary school. Some older ones at Uni and some out the other side I have two dear neighbours who are head teachers, other good friends who are teachers. I have another friend who is a school business manager. I see tangible evidence of the chronic underfunding in state schools and absurd aspects of the Gove curriculum every day.

Yet, when Gove was speaking about his excellent education reforms it sounded plausible. It made me doubt myself.
It is terrifying, that you can know his words are fabricated spin, yet he sounded convincing. It's like being brainwashed by dystopian newspeak.

I'd forgotten he was adopted.Not sure why I think that might make you more compassionate.

According to the Times, Corbyn is about to back a PV: www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/jeremy-corbyn-to-back-second-brexit-referendum-rhm6k2kxt
That would be good!

For the tories, yes. Labour will lose whole swathes of the north, to add to their demolition in Scotland.
Labour are fucked whichever way they go.
Which suits me I must say

One of the points that made me seethe was Hunt banging on about how we made a promise to the British people and we will keep that promise. Well why keep that promise and renege on so many others?

Clear binding promises were made to 4.9 million British voters living overseas that they would all be eligible to vote in UK elections. Binding promises were made by the Torys that the 15-year rule would be changed.. Yet these voters who are most affected were deprived of a vote in the Referendum. EU voters here were also deprived of votes in the EU parliament elections here..

Millions were excluded from voting and that's ok. Yet the number of party members who choose a PM is 160,000 Tory members and that's ok too?

It's beyond depressing - the questioners last night would be better in government than the candidates.

I’m afraid I’m with those who think this hyperbole about the questioners is beyond ridiculous. I can ask a good question myself but I’m under no illusion that fits me to run the country.
I also would be deeply ashamed if any child of mine was as snotty as that kid who asked about climate, but perhaps I’m old fashioned.

And actually, while I think on, none of them did ask terribly good questions. They were an awful mixture of wishy washy questions and bristling resentment. I found them pretty depressing, in truth.

On the subject of unbelievable stuff, did anybody read the recent response to one on the people's vote petitions.

It's like embarrassing newspeak or propaganda coming out of a government department:

1. They are still banging on about the 80%. Despite being decimated in the EU elections eighty percent of the population are behind them??

2.Apparently referendum that millions are asking for wouldn’t be a ‘people’s vote’ - it would be politicians telling the people they got it wrong the first time.

Responses like this from government departments are so lacking in objectivity and statesmanship that it's terrifying.

"You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Start preparations for a Peoples Vote now, to enable answer by 31.10.19
"
Government responded:
The Government maintains its commitment to upholding the 2016 referendum result. The extension agreed in April does not mean there is less urgency within government to deliver the referendum result.
In 2015, Parliament voted to put the choice of whether to leave or remain in the European Union into the hands of the British people in passing the European Union Referendum Act. This Government then wrote to every household, committing to implement the outcome of that decision.
On 23 June 2016, the British people made their decision in the referendum. 17.4 million people voted to leave the European Union. This is the highest number of votes cast for any single course of action in UK electoral history. In the 2017 General Election, British people cast their votes again - over 80% of those who voted in this election voted for parties who committed in their manifestos to uphold the result of the referendum, including the Opposition.

The British people have made their view clear. It is now our responsibility to uphold the result of the 2016 referendum, and uphold the commitment we made to the British people to respect their decision. Another referendum wouldn’t be a ‘people’s vote’ - it would be a ‘politicians’ vote’ – politicians telling the people they got it wrong the first time.
The extension agreed with the EU in April does not mean there is any less urgency within government to deliver on the result of the referendum. We have a duty to find a way to fulfil the democratic decision of the referendum, deliver Brexit and move our country forward.
Department for Exiting the European Union.

PMK, thanks Red.

And head>>>wall over that response, lonely. Do they actually believe the shit they come out with, or do they think we'll just roll over if they keep repeating the same shit ad infinitum?

What’s the point in the “How is it going to be paid for?” question, when these things have to be taken in the round based on the context at the time.

The majority of the general public don’t fully understand how government funding words, so it’s just more soundbites and nonsense. Someone could come up with a credible sounding argument but it could be nonsense.

Has anyone else watched the interviews with the candidates leaving? I only saw 2. Rory Stewart said that the format didn't suit and and he needs to improve - with the brightest smile.
Gove thought he won the debate.
Anyone else saw the others?

According to the Times, Corbyn is about to back a PV

Like he has for the last 12months?

Louise:
{Essentially what I want to know on the issue, is “what are you going to do”, “by when is it going to happen” and “how will your plan be paid for” }

How would you answer these questions? At the moment your fantasy of leaving is almost equivalent to the potential new PM's version.

I doubt Rory wants to be PM now but line himself up for being either PM or a top ranking job in the government that follows the oncoming train wreck.
There are so many issues to be dealt with whatever happens on Oct 31st that no one is actually capable of doing the job. It will be 'holding the fort' for a few weeks/months while the UK possibly slides into anarchy. During this time, the EU companies will know which way the wind is blowing and will move as appropriate.

No, they should have got the presenter or a panel of guest presenters to ask the questions IMO, as happens in most US Presidential debates.

But this is not a Presidential election where the whole of the country gets to vote. This is a cat fight in the Tory party which has got well and truly out of hand. So much so that the Referendum itself has destroyed two Tory PMs, one of whom richly deserved it for his arrogance. The other deserved it less so but was too stubborn and pig-headed, but it's just possible that history might be kinder to.

{What’s the point in the “How is it going to be paid for?” question,}

The UK public are going to get significantly poorer, the answer is simple. How the reduction will hit various sectors of the public will be the question so a better question might be, When 10% is taken out of the economy, will it be taken from homeowners, through increase in taxes, loss of amenities or loss of jobs, over and above those that will be lost as the new tariffs hit?

Welcome to brexit guys, with substandard unsafe products rammed down our throats:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7154585/British-Airways-announces-plans-buy-200-Boeing-737-MAX-jets.html

Annoyingly I use BA quite a lot for short haul. It's possible to avoid them of course but yey more hassle to deal with.. I mostly fear this is just a foretaste of things to come.

*yet more hassle

Didn't watch the debate, did anyone else notice Rory and Boris were both met by the same man when they walked up to the BBC building, I presume he was a BBC employee ? very tall handsome black chap ?

Like he has for the last 12months?

Well, this says: Jeremy Corbyn will back a move today for Labour to change its Brexit policy and support a second referendum in all circumstances.

Wasn’t his backing more conditional before? I’m just dreading a GE with nobody to vote for. If Labour genuinely backed a PV, it would certainly make voting easier for me!

Ah he had a one of those ear thingys , so security ? what a lovely smile

Songsofexperience
This has nothing to do with Brexit, it is an issue with instrumentation on those particular models of planes.
Avoiding BA is pointless as the same aircraft is used by many other carriers.
You could reasonably argue that the purchase of these planes will contribute to more deaths due to climate change through their use.
Maybe you should switch to trains for your short haul journeys?

I'll believe Corbyn back a PV when he actually backs it without a million other things needing to happen beforehand.

Very much a day late and a dollar short from Corbyn.

1tisleclerc

I know this isn't due to brexit- but i wonder if there is a certain context now in which there might be political pressure to back a US company rather than Airbus. Might be wrong and it could just be plain old greed (discount too good to pass up)
For very short haul like Paris or Brussels I take the Eurostar. It gets impractical for anything further afield and I can't afford to spend entire working days in transit. Also unfortunately in client facing roles nothing replaces meeting IRL.

Corbyn can kiss hiss ass goodbye if he gets unconditionally behind a PV His traditional labour voters that voted for Brexit wont like that

Rory Stewart has booked his space in the Boris candidate as a bone thrown to the non believers

And all airlines have grounded that model until further notice.