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Brexit

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/06/2019 22:16

Round 1 has passed.
Boris is winning. But these are the Tories. Surprises might yet happen.

But the chances are the lying buffon is full speed ahead to be the next PM. As long as he manages to keep his mouth shut.

Unfortunately being Prime Minister involves talking. This might prove to be something that bursts the BorisMania rather rapidly.

A GE is still very much on the cards.

And we might face the Constitutional and undemocratic shutting down of parliament to satisfy the Tory Faithless.

Meanwhile the EU couldn't give less shits. They just think we are wasting the time we were granted in good faith.

31st October beckons with No Deal.

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43
BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 21:59

No .... and Westministenders are entitled to know < stamps feet >

Raab's NDA is for bullying

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 22:01

The NDA rumour may just be a garbled rumour of the old case when one of his exes tried to block papers publishing that Boris fathered her child
(poor woman may have got to know him too late !)

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/may/21/boris-johnson-fathered-child-affair

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 22:03

btw, do we want a PM who either doesn't care if he fathers kids everywhere,
or doesn't understand how to use condoms ?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 22:08

No deal is 'extremely serious' for Northern Ireland, warns Tory MP

Tom Tugendhat, the chair of the foreign affairs select committee .... being adult, as he usually is
He must get fed up with all the tantrumming toddlers in his party

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/13/no-deal-exit-extremely-serious-for-northern-ireland-warns-tory-mp

TokyoSushi · 14/06/2019 22:08

PMK

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 22:14

Fintan O'Toole: Brexit Britain is wallowing in dangerous talk of national humiliation

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/brexit-britain-national-humiliation-uk-eu

At its heart, Brexit depends on the idea that Britain cannot be an ordinary European country and, therefore, that equality within the EU is inherently humiliating.
....
And yet we have the apparently untroubled self-abasement towards Trump.

National humiliation, it seems, depends on which nation or group of nations is inflicting the offence.
Mere equality with France and Germany and Spain is intolerably demeaning.
Subservience to a loutish US president is not.

Honour is impugned when the EU negotiates realistically but not when Trump casually abuses elected English politicians and interferes in the selection of the next prime minister.
....
Britain is humiliated by the EU because it expects to be superior.

It is not humiliated by Trump because, for all the illusion of a special relationship, it accepts that it is a junior partner.

In one context, dominance is demanded; in the other, subservience is accepted.

prettybird · 14/06/2019 22:21

Fintan O'Toole is always so good as nailing it - absolutely putting his finger on the UK/English delusions about Brexit Sad

colouringinpro · 14/06/2019 22:23

Pmk

PestyMachtubernahme · 14/06/2019 22:55

BCF what a middle class attitude Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 23:04

Ah, John Cleese before he became a rightwing upper class twit

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 23:08

That accepting of subservience to the USA came after Suez, when Eisenhower slapped down UK delusions

Brexit would be much worse than Suez II, but would we then become subservient to the EU ? Hmm

SistemaAddict · 14/06/2019 23:09

PMK

RedToothBrush · 14/06/2019 23:11

The Telegraph talks of wanting Johnson anointed leader to avoid blue on blue...

No debate huh?

Interesting.

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation
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RedToothBrush · 14/06/2019 23:17

Hunt, Gove and Stewart jump on board clean air plans for Queens Speech.

Does this include legislation again the air pollution that Johnson produces every time he speaks?

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation
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RedToothBrush · 14/06/2019 23:22

Speaking of NDA, it appears on of Raab's supporters in trying to defend him and being totally hypocritical in her calls to ban NDA in her capacity as a select committee chair has right royally fucked up..

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/albertonardelli/maria-miller-dominic-raab-nda?__twitter_impression=true
The Woman Who Has An NDA With Dominic Raab Has Complained To One Of His Top MP Supporters After They Called Her Claims “Vexatious”
The Women and Equalities Select Committee chair Maria Miller told BuzzFeed News: “The matter is being handled by lawyers.”

Oops!

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Peregrina · 14/06/2019 23:24

In all this toadying to the USA I always get the feeling that there is some remorse that they are the colony which got away, and that this way we might get them back.

SuePerbly · 15/06/2019 03:52

Placemarking with BigCat.

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation
RedToothBrush · 15/06/2019 08:20

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
After the er, ill-fated clean campaign pledge... to be fair this is pretty funny from team Raab

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation
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ContinuityError · 15/06/2019 08:53

The Telegraph talks of wanting Johnson anointed leader to avoid blue on blue...

Tom Watson @tom_watson

Now is the time to remember Boris Johnson gets paid £5,200 a week by the Daily Telegraph.

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation
RedToothBrush · 15/06/2019 09:01

Here is another article on focus group findings. This time it was published by the Huffington Post.
m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-tory-leadership_uk_5d038fbfe4b0304a120de063?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ncid=other_homepage_tiwdkz83gze&utm_campaign=mw_entry_recirc
How Our Focus Groups Suggest Fresh-Faced Sajid And Rory Could Be A Threat To Boris
While Tory voters we spoke with had concerns about Johnson's competence, Stewart was judged as honest and Javid grounded – raising the question of how fragile Tory trust really is in Boris.

Across two focus groups – both with former Tory voters, one set Remain, the other Leave – it wasn’t hard to get people talking about Boris Johnson, Rory Stewart or Sajid Javid. All are candidates with something about them; a personality, a backstory, a sense of being a bit different. Their identities speak of change and a disruption in the political system.

The candidates who had none of that were rejected out of hand: Michael Gove was tarred by his record of perceived ‘treachery’ – against Boris for the Leavers, teachers for the Remainers – while Jeremy Hunt came across as a politician from central casting. His lily-livered commitment to leave the EU with no deal but a ‘heavy heart’ pleased no one. “Either you believe in something, and then do it, or you don’t,” said one participant

Hunt’s manicured preciseness contrasted with the authenticity of the more successful candidates. The biggest gasp of the night came watching a video of Richard Madeley accusing Rory of saying something ‘weird’. Rory didn’t deflect or defend. He agreed. The question was a set-up they had seen in a thousand political interviews, but this was something new: a politician who accepted error.

The two interesting part of this is the reflection on the difference between leave and remain former tories.

For leave, Johnson is the only choice because he understands leave means leave. They view his burqa comments as not very offensive and demonstrating he isn't afraid to say what he thinks. However he has an achilles heel and it's really telling:

Boris’ biggest vulnerability was not on liberalism but on competence

And this seems to have been a real concern.

On the other side for former tory Remainers is this reflection:
These Remain voters were not second referendum supporters – most felt that a vote to leave created a need to leave. The job of government was to do that sensibly, and both candidates offered that.
Re Javid and Stewart.

It also stresses the number of remain v leave voters though and this

While many on the left find Boris’ identity politics and casual approach disqualifying, this was not true for either group of Tory target voters. He was someone Leave voters liked and Remain voters would give latitude to, particularly if he can lead as the character from his campaign video rather than the berk in a Union Jack waistcoat dangling from a zipline (another anecdote some participants recalled).

But the big take was that trust in Boris is fragile across the board. His perceived competence (or lack of) is an even bigger deal than is being framed by the media.

Boris therefore had no choice but to do a TV debate, even though there are clear worries about it. And Stewart being perceived as particularly honest is a real problem in contrast.

Ashcroft focus group wasn't too dissimilar but was more favourable to Hunt. Gove and Raab are dead ducks, with no popular appeal. Hard to argue that their campaigns aren't in trouble.

Javid, Johnson and Stewart ticked boxes in both though.

That's likely to influence the next round especially if Javid and Stewart do particularly well on Sunday and outshine the other three.

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ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 15/06/2019 09:06

That's likely to influence the next round especially if Javid and Stewart do particularly well on Sunday and outshine the other three

I think Stewart will come across better than Javid. Javid isn’t a particularly inspiring speaker.

I think it would be fascinating if the final two were a man noted for his honesty (Stewart) and a man noted for lying (and incompetence).

howabout · 15/06/2019 09:40

Claire Fox MEP reporting.

ukandeu.ac.uk/gravy-train-a-first-taste-of-life-as-an-mep/

Striking how much the Huffpost echoes recent discussions here Red

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2019 09:52

I thought you weren't allowed to give bad references anymore.

This from Max Hastings. Johnson's former boss at the Telegraph

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation
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1tisILeClerc · 15/06/2019 09:55

Well I am glad that Claire Fox is going to show her true British sense of fair play and donate all the 'perks' she sees as excessive to the foodbanks in the North West.
I presume all the other 'Leave' MEPs will do likewise.
I am also sure that Farage was so incensed that he will donate his perks too.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2019 09:56

Claire Fox, who justified the IRA murder of 2 little boys in Warrington

I'll reserve my indignation for her & her chums, rather than EP perks
I won't read any crap she puts out

It's not as if the HoC doesn't have perks - the HoC does 1st class travel rather than the EP business travel
I'm not aware of any Parliament that requires tourist class for its MPs

So far, the EP hasn't paid or moats and duck ponds

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