Westminstenders: Tory Natural Selection

[RedToothBrush]

Here we go again...

[NoWordForFluffy]

The gauntlet is thrown fluffy!!

"The great Brexit lemon drizzle off"

I'll wipe the floor with you
(In a loving, supportive way)

Challenge: accepted!

Mistigri, I'm from not far from London and recreational drug use was rife. But I agree that Durham uni was way more sedate than where I went to!

[dreichuplands]

Babies withdrawing from drugs when they are born are a sad thing indeed.
If we are going to penalise the lower socio economic groups for drug use we should hold our leaders, particularly those from more cushioned backgrounds equally accountable.
If we accept drug use we should support those impacted by it more effectively.

[Mistigri]

Mistigri, I'm from not far from London and recreational drug use was rife. But I agree that Durham uni was way more sedate than where I went to!

I just used Durham as an example as I know people who went there.

Also Cambridge way more sedate than Oxford IME though the people I know who went to Cambridge are mostly younger, so they paid fees which might have made a difference.

It's a non issue for me. Plus I am far more anti-alcohol than anti-drugs. I think that current alcohol use by MPs is far more damaging to the country than Gove taking a line of coke 20 years ago.

[NoWordForFluffy]

There's a huge difference between occasional recreational drug use and addiction though. It's a cavernous gulf between the two.

Even between recreational and hardcore weed users the gulf is huge.

They're nigh-on different ball games, not just playing fields.

[NoWordForFluffy]

Yes. Me too re Durham (an ex, a few friends from school and a few law school alumni).

And definitely re alcohol. The socially-acceptable drug has far more widespread misuse and negative impact on society.

[jessicawessica]

OMG it's just me then.
But why is there a difference between being a full on addict and a recreational user?

[OhLookHeKickedTheBall]

If Boris has never done drugs I’ll eat my sons stinky socks
On the news this morning they said Boris admitted cocaine use as a student and Hunt had drunk a cannabis lassi (no age stated). There was then an explanation of what lassi was which highly amused me. Plus also with the cocaine and opium use being bandied about, cannabis in a lassi seems like he was just trying to be as cool as his counterparts and failing miserably.

I'm not really fussed if they've taken drugs or not, other than to highlight some of their hypocrisy when they talk of drug users and penalising them. I'd be more concerned if one had an addiction, whether that's to something legal or not.

[NoWordForFluffy]

Because one's addicted and one does it purely for fun every now and then?

I'm sympathetic towards addicts; it's a hideous downward spiral. But it's a whole different world from recreational use (I'm imagining; I've never been an addict).

[dreichuplands]

I don't know an addict who didn't start as a recreational user and many of them managed to hold onto recreational use even of heroin for some time before succumbing to addiction.
It isn't so much that I object to recreational drug use (although having lived in Latin America I do have some issues with the drugs trade) but I really object to working class kids having their lives totally messed up with drugs convictions and slipping further into dependence while our political leaders seem immune to any comeback on their behaviour.

[mathanxiety]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/07/brexit-strange-death-british-conservatism
Interesting article on the impact of the Brexit Party and Brexit itself on the Tory Party. It's the Tories' chicken come back to roost of course.

There are echoes of a previous flirtation with extremism in today's Tory conundrum. That was the Tories' baby too. I am talking about Ulster Unionism from the 1880s on. In the end the extremism won that day too. The open threat of mutiny in the Army was tolerated, with virtually no consequences for the cabal of officers who put faction and their own political opinions before sworn duty.

The Conservative Party demonstrated its capacity to absorb factions dedicated to unconstitutional action and extreme nationalism right at the dawn of the modern Parliamentary era. The precedent of the hijacking of the Conservative Party was set a long time ago. Hence 'The Conservative and Unionist Party', and the statelet of Northern Ireland, and of course the Border.

Hence also the appeal of Margaret Thatcher, who promised massive change.

[Mistigri]

But why is there a difference between being a full on addict and a recreational user?

I don't really understand this question. Most illegal drugs aren't highly addictive, most recreational users never progress to regular use let alone addiction. Most stop using drugs completely as they get older and take on work and/or family responsibilities.

Addiction tends to be an issue with alcohol, tobacco, opioids and some pharmaceuticals like benzos. Addicts tend to have mental health problems and multiple addictions (they often abuse legal drugs and pharmaceuticals as well as illegal drugs).

[InterchangeableEmma]

*But why is there a difference between being a full on addict and a recreational user?
*
its precisely the difference between an alcoholic and someone who enjoys an occasional drink.

[Peregrina]

I really object to working class kids having their lives totally messed up with drugs convictions and slipping further into dependence while our political leaders seem immune to any comeback on their behaviour.

This. Plus also the abhorrent behaviour of e.g. the Bullingdon Club who get away with trashing places when working class lads almost certainly wouldn't for lesser behaviour.

Hardly ever touching alcohol and not being a smoker, drugs never appealed to me - but not everyone who does drink alcohol goes on to be an alcoholic. Is it the same with drug use?

I expect these Tories are all admitting it now before it's found out by the Press digging to smear the ones they deem the wrong candidates.

[Oakenbeach]

Boris Johnson has vowed to withhold Britain’s £39bn Brexit ‘divorce’ payment until the EU agrees better terms for the UK to leave.

Gets kudos from the Faragists for acting tough, but it’s never going to work! Get ready for all kinds of wheezes over the coming months....
but we’ll be nowhere come the autumn as we wait for the Remainer Tories to finally crack under the strain and bring down the Government.

[mathanxiety]

I really object to working class kids having their lives totally messed up with drugs convictions and slipping further into dependence while our political leaders seem immune to any comeback on their behaviour.
dreichuplands

Me too.

The poor can't just shrug about 'mistakes' of their past, whether drug related or otherwise.

[jasjas1973]

I agree with both AdequateFood and Violet. Let's just get on with sorting this bloody mess

Yes a class A drug user is just the person to sort out this mess, after all we seem to be living in a real life Alice in Wonderland scenario.

I doubt there's many in that list who have never taken drugs!

Bit of an indictment on the quality of our so called leaders.

Illegal drug use has very serious consequences for the user and down the supply chain.
If Gove (a regular user) was unable to comprehend that as a 31yo, then he is unfit to be PM, as i said earlier, he wasn't an immature student at uni.

[lonelyplanetmum]

I just think lots of current politicians have a fairly contemptuous view of the populace. (A bit Like some teachers who quietly lump all parents together as the enemy!) I think some politicians lump all the electorate together as easily duped, stoned, reality tv addicts. As a result they think that the way to seem one of the people is to feign or exaggerate drug use.

----

As I sideline I was interested in this article as I have another 11 year old who is very pro EU membership.

Northern~Ireland~11~year~olds~on~Brexit.

[NoWordForFluffy]

Yes a class A drug user is just the person to sort out this mess, after all we seem to be living in a real life Alice in Wonderland scenario.

Former Class A drug user. And no other fucker has managed it, so why not?!

[Piggywaspushed]

Churchill was a functioning alcoholic by all accounts , wasn't he? Wasn't he also linked to drug use?

The thing that concerns me about cocaine is that it is on the rise amongst young people and Gove appearing to be unscathed (both health wise and career wise) is not the best 'just say No, kids' message.

FWIW, as a teacher, I got to the age of 22 before I ever saw any drug use. This may relate to the 'provinces' conversation. Occasionally on the Higher Ed board , conversation comes up about which unis have the greatest drugs use : Bristol and UWE 'win'. I can assure you that drug use is not at all common in the teaching profession : if we were found to have taken cocaine we could be in hot water. And teacher parties certainly do not include recreational drug use too busy slagging off the parents, it seems : mostly people falling asleep in their wine.

[bellinisurge]

What @jasjas1973 said. 31? Of course he should know about supply chains and distribution. And the human misery associated with it.

[1tisILeClerc]

Some of you lot are making me feel positively retarded!
I don't even 'do' lemon drizzle cake. I have imbibed the of few slices from an M+S one but I could happily say no.
Black forest gateau (very 1970's) is a different matter though.

[Iambuffy]

Ah, but you've never tasted mine leclerc 🍰😊

[prettybird]

Ds, currently at Uni in Aberdeen, says that drug use is common amongst his fellow students - mostly (strong) cannabis and MDMA(?) type drugs. It was his main criterion for looking for a flatmate next year: no one who did drugs, which cut out most of this year's flat mates and their friends (even though he liked them).

This year's flat mates went off for a weekend to Amsterdam - he chose not to go with them as their primary purpose for the weekend was the cannabis.

There are benefits to him being a keen sportsman and "his body is a temple" Plus, to give British Cycling its due, when he was still cycling competitively and going to Regional Schools of Racing, they were really hot on the anti-drugs message, not just because of the effect on your body but because it was cheating .

[frumpety]

DG I second your opinion on this years Summer, I think some sunshine and a lot of showers is going to be the theme.

Leclerc am with you on the Black Forest gateau.

Saw a lot of drug use amongst my contemporaries back in the day, different camps, weed, speed, ecstasy and smack Don't know any who take anything now though, well one, but they are a long term addict. Very few took coke as speed was cheaper and easier to source, anecdotally a shortage in speed led to a few moving onto smack, they went from taking speed at weekends to taking smack a lot, from smoking it to injecting. A couple of younger ones took smack to come down from ecstasy.

[Songsofexperience]

prettybird my DS and yours would get along really well then! Shame he's at another uni 100 or so km to the South. However, his assessment of the situation at his uni is the same: mostly alcohol, occasional cannabis (which he loathes) and no mention of anything else.