To ask Remainers ...

[ScreamingLadySutch]

Your views?

Brexiteers were asked their reasons the other day. So I would like to ask Remainers

• what do you think will happen, and what are you so afraid of?

"While Trump and Xi battle it out over tariffs, Africa has quietly estbalished the world's largest free trade area. The African Continental Free Trade Area came into effect today, at least on paper. Signed by 52 of 55 countries, the continental agreement could boost trade in Africa by as much as 25%, or $70-billion. Benin, Nigeria and Eritrea still need to sign on the dotted line, however. " ...

there are some huge markets developing out there, people

It will launch us into another recession and this one will be far more serious.
The rise of far right extremism, racist abuse, xenophobia etc in a country that has come so far past that, feels like Brexit has caused us to majorly backtrack.
Enjoyed the fact we had freedom of movement within the EU .
Immigrants are great and immigration is a wonderful thing. My family are immigrants, they are mostly all teachers as am I. Immigrants don’t come over to leech off the government, my family came here to escape Nazis and now... Well, I find Brexit rather shameful if I’m being completely honest. It’s a national embarrassment.
I worry about small businesses and about the public sector.

there are some huge markets developing out there, people

Which we could have engaged with as part of a mighty trading block.

On our own, what makes us attractive to those markets as a place for doing business? I don’t get it.

A plunging £ is a bad thing because it will make our imports more expensive. Add that to tariffs on EU imports and inflation will go through the roof. The economy was the main reason I voted Remain three years ago.

I have the same concerns over trade, medicines, right wing upsurge as others.
I'd also express my concern over funding for wildlife and conservation projects. Even on Springwatch the other night, two conservation projects, one in Cornwall one in Scotland had received EU funding.
So as well as being poorer, sicker, and having to swerve neos the UK will also be uglier and with less wildlife. I'd rather have the newts than Farage et al.

Why is WTO (to which UK is already a signatory) worse

Almost all countries in the world trade using the WTO rules - its the framework that forms the basis of trade.

However, most countries are in trading blocs and/or have extensive trading agreements in place which removes or abolishes tariffs and non tariff barriers.

The UK will be leaving one of the most powerful trading blocs in the world and will have very little in place to replace the extensive EU agreements, despite what the MN Brexit cheerleaders will try and tell you.

The WTO doesn’t work fast.

I voted Remain purely out of pessimism as I didn’t think, should we vote to Leave, we’d ever actually be allowed to. The behaviour of fellow Remainers since the referendum has turned me into a staunch Brexiteer and I bitterly regret my vote.

So many reasons. My main concern is trade. We need to trade. It's not optional. If we leave we will have to negotiate from scratch trade deals with all of our trading partners. In the same way that a corner shop can't command the same wholesale prices as Tesco, we will be at a disadvantage as a lone country instead of part of a trading bloc.

China is currently pursuing an aggressive trade policy, their 'new Silk Road' project has very onerous clauses for countries who's new ports and trade routes they build. We will not be able to command beneficial deals on our own.

We will be a poor country with all that entails. We joined the 'Common Market' for the right reasons, those reasons are only more important now. Not less.

WTO rules are the absolute basic, no country wants to trade on them. All existing trade relationships we have through the EU will have to be negotiated afresh from a weaker position - we're no longer trading as part of the huge EU buyers club. It's also complicated by the fact that the UK has nowhere near enough qualified trade negotiators. We've contributed a lot of expertise to EU negotiating teams, but as part of a team.

The EU was very good at redistributing wealth from richer areas to poorer areas through regional development funding. Many parts of the UK have benefited from this - the east coast of England, the North East, Wales, etc. The chances of a post-Brexit UK government picking this up are, in my opinion, very low.

International collaboration on medical, scientific and industrial research will become more difficult. Within the EU there were almost no barriers to cooperation with our European neighbours. The people involved could move freely between EU countries and it was easy to set-up a project wherever it was most convenient within the EU28.

We have an economy built on a pyramid scheme, relying on lots of younger peoples working to care for the elderly, and a large pool of employed tax payers keeping the system going. People are getting older and they're having fewer children. The pyramid is in danger of collapsing. Now some amongst the Brexit leaders don't see this as a problem, because their part of the campaign has been funded by a health/care insurance billionaire who'd be rather keen to see the NHS model changed.

In some professions recruitment of UK citizens to the workforce proved very difficult. Nursing and healthcare has had the media attention, but one of the most critical is vets. Not the cute and fluffy small animal vets, but the animal welfare and food safety vets that observe abattoirs - 80% of these vets in the UK are Spanish. Hygiene and welfare standards will drop if there's insufficient supervision - this is on top of chlorinated/hormone meat from the US that Trump would like to export to us.

Opportunity will be reduced. Freedom of movement went both ways. UK citizens have been free to travel to work or study or live in any of the EU27. Because we have a problem with learning foreign languages, and because we have a cultural problem with "foreign" in general, these opportunities haven't always been fully taken up by UK citizens.

I'm one half of a UK-EU marriage. The stress of uncertainty has been crippling. Our plans of dividing stages of our life together between here and there have been torn up and thrown to the wind. I took my opportunities to live, love and work across transparent borders. I resent the choice of those that believe I shouldn't have that opportunity. I am repelled by the casual racism my EU friends are reporting to me.

There are no advantages to being outside the EU. A lot of puff and wind has been blown by people pointing to our financial contribution and vague an unspecified Regulations or Red Tape. As a country we gain back more than we spend. We punch above our weight internationally as part of the EU block. We have a better deal in the EU than Germany.

What we have never done is take the EU seriously. There is nowhere near enough coverage of European issues in the UK media. The general population is ignorant of even the basic topics of European news and conversation. We've just participated in the second largest democratic process in the world, yet many Leavers will insist that the EU is undemocratic.

Increased austerity

Disruption of the very fragile peace in Northern Ireland and the Troubles resuming

A further Recession

Increase in far right groups and backward non-progressive policies

Reduction in workers’ rights

Reduction in environmental protection

Reduced protection for animals

A platform for the revocation of the human rights act

Less protection against discrimination

Decreased food standards

Loss of jobs

Increased poverty

Lack of personal freedom of movement rights

I don’t expect to be massively affected myself at least at first as my job is helping poor and disabled people who will no doubt be worse off and need more help than ever, but I worry for the people who will suffer the worst consequences.

Regarding the Irish hard border, apparently this happened between Dominic Raab and Michael Bernier:

... the prospect of securing a Withdrawal Agreement that would pass the House of Commons were stalled over the EU's insistence on keeping a non-time limited "backstop" which created separate rules for Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

Its introduction was designed to guarantee that no hard border would be introduced between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland where, post-Brexit, the UK's only land border would exist with the EU. As constructed, the UK would never be able to leave the backstop arrangements without the consent of Brussels. For the talks to be stalled on this point struck many as deeply frustrating given both the Irish and British governments had repeatedly said that in the event of no deal, neither government would actually introduce a hard border. Dominic was ready to ask the question that was on the lips of most interested observers.

“Michel,” Dominic began, “ in the event that we cannot agree the Withdrawal Agreement the British government will not impose a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. The Irish government have said the same. Would then, under these circumstances, the EU insist on imposing such a border?"

In a characteristic piece of negotiating theatre, Michel removed his ear piece (used for listening to instant interpretation) and proceeded to go off script in English with a lengthy protestation on what Dominic had asked. As he talked, he became more excitable with much waving of arms and heavy sighs, to underline his comments, all of which asked questions, but gave no answer to Dominic's central point, would the EU impose a hard border or not?

Instead he questioned the sincerity of the UK commitment not to impose a border, refusing to accept such a thing could happen and insisting Theresa May had said no such thing could happen. His very excitable remarks were met with a calm, inscrutable response from Dominic.

would the EU impose a hard border or not?

Doesn’t matter what the EU would do, the WTO would de facto require one anyway.

Alsohuman so how do you explain the increase in economic growth as a result of the devalued pound?

Your point about more expensive imports is quite correct, its just getting the cost/benefit part of economics right. That is the call that counts!

And the UK government knows it’s a huge issue, May herself never disputed that. Which is why the backstop has become such a big deal.

OP, you asked why people voted Remain which we all seem to have taken as a genuine inquiry, made in good faith. I assumed you were actually interested in our reasons. If it’s going to turn into yet another Brexit bunfight I’m off.

It’s a shame because it was going unusually well.

I wouldn’t put any faith in anything Raab says.

As a Brexit secretary he didn’t understand the importance of Dover.........

If Brexit we got was the one sold to us in 2016 then I could live with it - just about.

If only there had been a plan........

I also suggest you go across to the Brexit board and put your arguments there.

Everyone is still waiting for well thought out benefits of Brexit that can’t be countered.

Public funding cannot stand another recession. We've been 'austerited' to the point of breaking.
Wto is just a different set or rules so why would they be better?
Most trade deals come with a FoM mandate anyway and these deals are likely to be worse for UK people and benefit the other party more.

We only didnt go into recession after the vote because the BoE shored up the economy by pumping billions in (and most people have seemed to forgotten that).- we can't do that forever.
I'd rather a cooperative than isolationist policy.
And as others have said it has enabled us to punch above our weight.

Leaving the EU will solve none of our domestic issues it's just a distraction.

We unleashed Pandora's box. Chaos has ensued. The last thing left in the box was hope and that is now in short supply.
Be careful what you wish for because a country without hope will be a terrible place to live.

We're just moving this over to the Brexit topic

Death...I'm type 1 diabetic, disruption to insulin will kill me...hope that is reason enough

Most of us I think will be able to cope with what ever happens. But the one in six in poverty will be those who really suffer.

Oh and my dh has a brain condition which causes seizures. It's rare. His neurologist is Dutch.
And he can't use generic meds and changes in meds can trigger a seizure. For us one seizure is life changing (lost job last time).

@ScreamingLadySutch - regarding the Irish Border, how do you propose a future UK government could deliver on promises to the electorate to control immigration with an open border between the UK and the EU on Ireland? Where do you check passports and visas?

Remember, you're not allowed a border in the Irish Sea between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. That conflicts with domestic promises and assurances.

I think you're trying to present yourself as a Reasonable Leaver, but you're going to have to listen and engage with the problems described to succeed at that.

For an explanation of WTO and why No Deal is a bad thing, have a listen to Rory Stewart's interview on the subject released on social media today.

{so how do you explain the increase in economic growth as a result of the devalued pound? }
Companies in the UK and EU have been stockpiling for the March 29 departure which occupies many industries up until then and now beyond as we haven't departed. However it is getting to the point where stockpiles are getting saturated and many are asking 'What now'?
They can't afford to stockpile for ever, they need to know what will happen. The indecision will kill many companies off.