Westministenders: The Only Election That Matters - The Tory One

[RedToothBrush]

Fallout from the Euro Elections makes for interesting reading for the leadership hopefuls.

Its not a clear cut as some make out. There is still a case for a deal. The trouble is passing it through parliament. And there is no time to do that. Nor no will.

Any new leader's priority isn't going to be a deal. Its going to be avoiding a General Election. And thats going to be hard.

We are also realistically facing the prospect of another extension which France is likely to block leading to no deal or no deal.

Or a 2nd Referendum.

A 2nd Referendum might be the only way to avoid a General Election. And that will still have no deal on the ballot. Of that you can be sure.

Peter Foster of the Telegraph remarked this morning that in fact the only way to a deal now, might well be via no deal, because of all the routes we have exhausted through incompetence. And that will come at a very high price.

https://jobs.theguardian.com/job/6904771/policy-advisors-eu-exit-/?utmsource=odpy&utmmmedium=sfbk&utmcampaign=aumat&utmmcontent=displayad&CMPTU=jbsr&CMPP_BUNIT=jobs

BINGO!

Sorry "Stats for Lefties" - its their twitter handle.

{The only other possibility would be May's awful deal...}

Any yet again for the cameras:
The WA is not a deal. Apart from the 3 'basics' the rest is a summary of the legislation that needs to be rewritten/negotiated. The conclusion of these is to be determined by the PD and through the negotiations that START after the WA is signed the 'degree' of exit can be worked out, from total isolation (implementing the rewriting of all the treaties contained in the WA) to implementing hardly any of them, almost 'remaining'. The various 'steps' of Mt Barniers diagram are all possible once the initial WA has been signed, whereby citizens rights are protected, the backstop in Ireland and the exit bill.

Always a hint of Death Cult when leavers prophecy the 'END OF THE EU!' Maybe it's the ever changing date predictions?

It is undoubtable that the EU will change, but the chances of being disbanded completely are very close to zero.

Apologies howabout - I've not heard of them before

What hope has this country got when it's seemingly a tiny minority of people who understand what the WA is and what would come next? And also what no deal actually means and would have to happen next (signing the WA).

Why is nobody trying to drive this message home (answering own question: it's fucking futile as people are just too thick or too blinkered to understand / care)?

I’d be interested to know if the Brexit Party has produced any kind of manifesto or list of policies for the residents in the Peterborough by-election. Or are they doing their EU election ‘we don’t need a manifesto’ thing?

Surely to be an MP in Westminster you need policies on more than just whether we should be in or out of the EU?

What about housing, health, crime, education and transport etc?
They are an unknown quantity as far as I can see.

I suppose at least with Death Cults the believers have a promised land to get to.

None of our BeLeavers seem to be able to vocalise their reward.

I’d be interested to know if the Brexit Party has produced any kind of manifesto or list of policies for the residents in the Peterborough by-election. Or are they doing their EU election ‘we don’t need a manifesto’ thing

I really hope they put together a manifesto.

Farage is probably trying to work out which is least damaging

A) write a manifesto and have it picked over
B) don’t write on and have the media complain endlessly about lack of manifesto

I think B is less damaging.

Widdlecum has made it very clear they are a one string banjo.
Dull and boring to anyone with ears.

I don't think Brexit Party supporters give a shit about a manifesto, or if one is picked over. They will just blindly vote for them either way. It's less work to do B, however.

{A) write a manifesto and have it picked over
B) don’t write on and have the media complain endlessly about lack of manifesto }

B is a lot less effort. If challenged he can always waffle and change the subject, he has done this for years and is a past master.

The biggest % of votes doesn't always translate into enough seats to win an election though, think the Sky News headline about Lib Dems winning an election is misleading. If all the Lib Dem votes are concentrated in a few areas it may not win enough seats. Further back on this thread others have posted what the % share would actually mean in terms of seats and if correct had Labour winning the most seats

They won't have a manifesto - too complicated.
Obscure promises and an event not a process - twill be so simple!
Just BeLeave!
Anyone who doesn't simply doesn't get it or they aren't "the chosen ones" or, as I am called on FB "merely an EU puppet".
Yes, Death Cult parallels abound.

Re a manifesto: It's not a 'political party' it's a 'limited company' .
With 3 'officers' . Its leader can and will do what he likes/is told to do. And will.
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11694875

fluffy I would settle for the tiny minority sitting in a big building in Westminster understanding the purpose of WA.

Me too, Basilpots. It's a shame that most of that lot aren't in the tiny minority though. Or are, but don't care that their alternative plans destroy the U.K.

I'm pretty certain we are seeing a paradigm shift in UK politics. Tory and Labour aren't because ... well because they are Tory and Labour and their jobs depend on them not seeing it. A little like your boss who insists now is a great time to increase your high street presence because the internet is "a fad".

In the case of politics, the internet - social media particularly - have created an environment where people of one view can suddenly connect with like-minded people in an instant and for free. Something that simply was not possible before. That's how we can see a new political party emerge in less time than it takes to make a TV series.

Of course more political parties lowers and raises the bar for the existing ones. Tory/Labour may have breezed into poll position in a seat when there were 3 main parties plus a scattering of localised candidates. But how will they fare when you have 4,5,6 "main" parties, each capable of taking 10% of the vote ? And then aggregate that up across the country to try and form a "simple" majority of 326 seats ? Good luck with that, my friend.

PR isn't really an answer to that - it would simply even out the lumps a bit. But if you have 5, 6 parties each capable of pulling in 20% of the electorate ...

That isn't going away anytime soon.

Ironically, for a system that can't move for marketing-types obsessed with themselves brands, the Tories and Labour have managed to do a spectacularly bad job of explaining to the public what they actually stand for. I've been following politics since "Thatcher, Thatcher, Milk Snatcher !!!!" (as my DM chanted outside the school), and I don't think I am alone in admitted I really haven't a clue what Conservatives or Labour actually mean. And being honest, I would be sceptical if anyone on this thread - possibly one of the most well informed general discussions in the UK on Brexit - knew either.

The (relatively) sudden introduction of printing to Europe - and the exchange of opinions, ideas and knowledge that it engendered triggered a process of change that saw the previous World Order (as it was seen) to undergo centuries of violent change. With "fake news" being as much an accusation used against Luther, as Trump et al use it today.

Fans of such things may recall James Burkes "The Day The Universe Changed" where he holds up a pamphlet (16th century version of a tweet) and noted it was written in Latin for the cognoscenti, German, for the local middle class, and a picture for the peasants. (... and in either form, the message was clear... (raspberry noise) ). Looks like we are retreading that time in history. Let's hope the clothes are better, and burning at the stake is deemed too unGreen.

We'll be negotiating with the EU until it collapses no matter what happens.

You say that , like its a bad thing, negotiating that is

The Brexit party just want a 'clean break' (rather than calling it a 'no deal') which implies that we just merrily carry on as usual but without the EU breathing down our neck, whilst we make shiny new deals with the rest of the world and skip onwards towards a bright future. That is as much as I can infer from the lack of any kind of real 'what next' info from Brexiters.

In, out, half in, half out we will be negotiating with the EU whatever happens.

They are our nearest neighbours. I they catch a cold we sneeze and vice versa.

Right. Well I'm off to Europe this weekend using my freedom of movement and included mobile phone allowance while I still have it. And I'm very grateful to be able to do so.

DH got me ragey this morning pointing out that the brexit party ruins talks in terms of redkip and bluekip. Redbrex and bluebrex sound too much like cereals. I love him really.

Oh yes, a Ltd Co!
I wonder why, seeing as companies are usually far easier to prosecute for errors than politicians? See BoJo.