Westministenders: The Only Election That Matters - The Tory One

[RedToothBrush]

Fallout from the Euro Elections makes for interesting reading for the leadership hopefuls.

Its not a clear cut as some make out. There is still a case for a deal. The trouble is passing it through parliament. And there is no time to do that. Nor no will.

Any new leader's priority isn't going to be a deal. Its going to be avoiding a General Election. And thats going to be hard.

We are also realistically facing the prospect of another extension which France is likely to block leading to no deal or no deal.

Or a 2nd Referendum.

A 2nd Referendum might be the only way to avoid a General Election. And that will still have no deal on the ballot. Of that you can be sure.

Peter Foster of the Telegraph remarked this morning that in fact the only way to a deal now, might well be via no deal, because of all the routes we have exhausted through incompetence. And that will come at a very high price.

Until the UK gov (and MSM) stop dancing around their handbags and start calling a spade a spade the UK will never get out of this hole.

colouringinpro
I think they are just discussing the flavour of lube.

(Now trying to get images out of my head!!!)

"Renegotiation ..... It is not even the EU's call"

Of course it is
There will be no renegotiation if the EU - which consists of the E27 and the UK - don't all agree to do so.

The E27 heads of govt will discuss Brexit at the June & October #EUCOs and agree their final position then.

The E27 as a whole has to agree - any member can veto an extension
and in practice, any member can veto further negotiations

The E27 negotiate as a united bloc for maximum strength, same as they do in trade deals with Japan, S Korea etc

And.... all the talk and hope that Labour (and Corbyn) were going to get a more realistic position on Brexit (rather than sit on the fence where everyone hates you) has crashed and burnt.

The Dear Leader has now decided that we might have a referendum, but only between his deal and... something else, but not remain.

I used to vote labour; I'll never do so again with him in charge. Looks like I will remain a Lib Dem voter :-(

Re IDS will also depend if and how we have Brexited and if we have how it pans out.

If we have brexited do we think Farage will switch his attention to changing the face of British politics which probably has the potential winning a broader support ?

Perhaps morph into the ‘Reform’ party and help us all reclaim our democracy?

It's astounding how being able to read foreign sources changes the reality of the situation.

It’s also astounding how few British nationals can do this. After all, IIRC you only need a reading age of ~12 to read the UK broadsheets (and ~7 or 8 to read the tabloids). I didn’t take any languages beyond GCSE, and yet I can read sources in French and Italian.

Sorry Bigchoc I think we agree. I meant EU as an Institution as opposed to EU27.

What it does seem that Corbyn is carrying on his back bench habit of doing what he pleases even on the front bench.

So are any of the EU27 leaders due to take an electoral tumble any time soon that we need to worry about.

I assume our Government whilst running it’s own beauty pageant is hoping cracks will appear in the relationship between the EU members that might give hope of a renegotiation of the WA ?

{Renegotiation ..... It is not even the EU's call" }

By signing A50, Theresa handed the EU the car keys and the bag of cookies. Had she attempted to negotiate from day 1 things could have panned out differently, but we all here see that she chose a path of insulting the EU and many other world leaders by her, and the cabinets words and actions.
You don't (normally) discuss a large loan you would like from the bank by smacking him/her in the face.

So the EU’s June checkup to see how we’re doing is in exactly 3 weeks. What will we have to show for this extra time?
-Local elections where the Tory Party was decimated.
-EU elections where the Tory Party was decimated.
-PM resignation prompting a leadership race with a huge number of non-serious Brexiter candidates. This is likely to go on and on.
-Most candidates ignoring the clause about no renegotiations and saying they can get a better deal.
-Favourite leadership candidate in court charged with misconduct in public office.
-Three? weeks total of parliamentary recess and several other weeks with very little happening in the HoC.
-A state visit from Trump.

I don’t think this is progress. What’s the penalty for not progressing?

It’s also astounding how few British nationals can do this. After all, IIRC you only need a reading age of ~12 to read the UK broadsheets (and ~7 or 8 to read the tabloids). I didn’t take any languages beyond GCSE, and yet I can read sources in French and Italian.

As I say, be careful who knows that ... like mental arithmetic, it can seem like witchcraft, depending where you are.

All you need to do is find one person (the shoutier the better) who thinks they've experienced something that may be different to what is being suggested, and years of research, peer review and international agreement go down the crapper

Yes, and juries seem to be easily swayed by a victim-blamer or two.

Even during the Brexiters's beloved WW2, the BBC knew better than to broadcast complete lies.

Remember, Brexiteer "knowledge" of WW2 (what little there is) ends about page 3. of the "Ladybird book of WW2" (pretty much where the pictures stop). Anything beyond that ... well it's anyones guess really. After all they never bothered to study history (or much else either) at school.

If they had, they would be aware of Churchills maxim that "The truth is so precious it must be protected by a bodyguard of lies".

I guess Brexiteers aren't the only folk that can be snarky. I'd take them on anyday. Well, any non school day.

Yes, and juries seem to be easily swayed by a victim-blamer or two.

?

For better, for worse, juries are what juries are. There's an old adage about preferring to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 ....

{I don’t think this is progress. What’s the penalty for not progressing?}

The UK gets to keep Trump.

As a wee bit of general knowledge - juries in Scotland are 15 people

So QT is continuing its proud tradition of never having had a pro-EU UK MEP on the panel - despite the UK having returned a majority of pro-EU MEPs

Although Mairead McGuinness, the Irish MEP has appeared on QT 3 times since the beginning of 2018, plus Maggie Chapman (newly elected Scottish Green MEP) has been on the panel.

Mairead McGuiness is not a UK MEP and Maggie Chapman was not an MEP when she was on

So tell me, how many times have UKIP MEPs been on? How many times have anti-EU Conservative MEPs been on? And how many times have pro-EU UK as I said in my post MEPs been on?

...but thank you for making my case

It's probably because we're using different terminology, howabout

The EU as an institution basically consists of:
. its 27 / 28 members, who make the major decisions,
. the Commission as the pro-active civil service who can also propose legislation
. the EP bolted on for additional direct democratic input to debate & pass / block legislation and approve / remove the Commission
. the ECJ to handle the legal side and any disputes,
. and a huge international treaty tying them all together.

Without any of the above, the EU would no longer exist.

So when referring to the "EU" deciding anything, we should mean the part of the EU that is the E27, as represented by their heads of govt.

When the EU is acting on (some of) those decisions, e.g. negotiations if any, then it's the Commission who organises that:
choosing the team, getting an agreed negotiating mandate from the 27, regularly reporting to them and getting feedback, publishing info online to inform the EU public and stakeholders.

QT has been blatantly biased for years in its selection of invitees.

Such a dreadful deterioration, including the quality of debate during the programs, since Robin Day
It used to be the highlight of the TV week for Mum & me

Pretty much BCF, Does rather beg the question of how enforceable the never ending backstop actually is. Hence the ERG internal debate on whether or not to pass the WA and then dismantle it.

....that's why I haven't watched it for years - yet I used to enjoy it as a way of getting balanced and informed contrary opinions

I do follow the fall-out on Twitter though - that can be very entertaining and informative